Chinese Marine Propulsion

Tomboy said:

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It's the Wartsila 31, medium speed diesel that also supports dual fuel. Power range from 4.6MW for a 8 cylinder to 10.4MW for 16 cylinder which is similar as well.
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Official brochure claims 169.4g/kWh for diesel only version of the engine and 176.5g/kWh for the dual fuel version.View attachment 165361

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Two problems with this.

First of all, you think that there is a problem with CSSC not having the most efficient engine. Which, given Wartsila's long history, it's certainly plausible that it would have more efficient engine than CSSC. And this is CSSC's first crack at 9MW combustion engine. It is the best CSSC can do at the moment. If you have a problem with that, that's your problem. I'm kind of tired of your complaints on this and the aero engine thread. 46% efficiency is already really good.

Secondly, both the CSSC and MTU engine have engine speed of around 1100 rpm, whereas this Wartsila engine speed is 720 to 750 rpm. Given that the CSSC engine supports both diesel and ammonia, you should compare its diesel mode SFC to the DF version of Wartsila engine. So, you are not comparing apples to apples here. Even if they were the same, the difference between 176.5 g/kwh & 185 g/kwh really isn't all that much. You are looking at probably 46 vs 48% thermal efficiency. 46% efficient combustion engine is pretty good. That's where the top gasoline engines are at.

And if we look at it's ammonia mode.

1 kg diesel = 2.2 kg ammonia -> 2.457 kWh/kg of ammonia
each kg of ammonia has 5.17kWh of energy -> 47.5% thermal efficiency
So CS27 is even more efficient in ammonia mode than diesel mode.
CSSC designed CS27 to be an efficient "green" combustion engine that can fully explore thermal energy of ammonia fuel.

CSSC's 704th Institute developed a full lineup of S-POD series that can rotate 360 degrees with power of 400kW to 10MW. This is the most advanced form of marine electric propulsion.

CSSC across 3 quarters has delivered 211 main engine with 3.98m total horsepower. Up 15.9% & 14.7% YoY. It has delivered the first 5X72DF-2.1+iCER LNG dual fuel low speed engine and 7G80ME-C10.5-LGIM-EGRTC low speed methanol duale fuel engine.

More on CS17, CS21 and CS27.

CS27 series of engines covers 2-10MW in power and is China's high power medium speed's engine leader. CS17 covers 2-4MW high speed engine (to be used by unmanned ship and mining trucks). Ammonia dual fuel engine can have at most 86% replacement ratio and 43% in thermal efficiency. Methanol medium speed engine can reach 95% replacement. Looks like dual fuel variant is mostly for 2-3MW version.

There you go, 4 CS27s can cover somewhere close to 40MW in power.


looks like CSSC signed contract with Envision for ammonia engine
and 宜昌江腾 for the methanol engine.

CSSC and JiangNan shipyard unveiled their 192k m3 B Type cabin DFDE (Dual Fuel/Diesel Electric) propulsion LNG carrier. The smaller B type cabin allows size of LNG container to increase from 174k to 192k m3, lowering unit freight cost. The BrilliancE II liquid cargo protection cabin uses Aluminum 5083-O material. This BrilliancE cabin already used in VLEC 1.0/2.0/3.0 (very large ethane carrier) ships.

DFDE propulsion uses dual fuel diesel engine to generate electricity which then powers eMotor that drives the ship's propellers.

大辽在试验航行期间的燃料计算案例

根据案例中给出的数据，结合大辽蒸汽动力系统的总功率进行推算，大辽在试验-巡航工况下，蒸汽动力系统燃油消耗率约为400-409g/kw-h

远高于052D/055装备的GT25000燃机的燃油消耗率：GT25000在巡航工况下的燃油消耗率大致介于250-290g/kw-h之间

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typically, diesel fuel density is said to be 12.6kWh/kg.
270g/kWh -> 3.7 kWh/kg -> 29.4% fuel efficiency
405g/kwh -> 2.47 kWh/kg -> 19.6% fuel efficiency
latest diesel engine is hitting 46% fuel efficiency with CS21 and CS27. So, there is quite a lot of difference and improvement.

711th Institute from CSSC
showcasing their electric propulsion system for chemical ships. It has 35 set of orders for chemical ships. DC Network Power System.

also received AIP cert for ammonia fuel supply System.

Other things they showcased:
450 set of orders for 300-5000kW capacity split-type shaft-driven generator system (both permanent magnet and excitation type)
900kW waste heat recovery power generation system.
High efficiency propulsion and hydrodynamic energy saving devices
marine rotary sail system to convert clean green wind energy into ship propulsion.

So 711th institute is really into all sort of energy conservation systems.

From our friend

40兆瓦简单循环船用燃机，是135期间敲定的重点项目，项目落地时间应该是定在了145末期，事实上也确实如此（2024年底开的发布会）

如果两机专项没有再经过全面修订，则40兆瓦简单循环船用燃机将是155及以后发展的各种新型舰船的首选动力

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Not only that, he brought out the idea of just more gas turbine across PLAN fleet.

if naval version of CGT40 is what everyone uses then the ships will get larger with more power generation and higher top speed.

I am looking forward to a 4 GT IEPS follow on to current 055 that will be a lot larger.

of maybe a 1 GT + 4 diesel IEPS for destroyers.

076 will go a faster too once it get a nice 30 MW boost in power

A little more from yesterday and today

宽度超过22米的大型主战舰船设计方案，这是存在的

PS：编辑了一下，目前只知道有一种宽度远超055的大型主战舰船设计方案，会不会落实还不清楚，而且这个方案可以确定不是以前055的某种旧案

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so the current 055 has 20m beam. 22m+ would be wider than Slava class but still smaller than Kirov. We are probably looking at close to 15000t if they have a 23m beam and 200m long ship. 4 x 40 MW IEPS -> 160 MW for such a ship? I guess they can add more small turbines or diesel if they want even more power.

再提个事

院所和高校有验证过2燃机单侧进气方案

我倾向于这是在搞学术和技术储备研究

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This is interesting. 1 intake for dual gas turbines.

有燃机护卫舰又怎样？有全燃驱逐舰又怎样？驱护舰编队平均加速度比对手更快又咋样

那么大个编队，说跟丢就跟丢了，你们家狗腿子不是经常笑话054和056跑不快只能搞接力跟踪吗？怎么轮到自己就瞎了呢？

这说明什么？说明在真正的高烈度对抗环境下，驱护舰如果没有强大的情报体系支持，连最基本的追踪报点任务都做不了，再强大的续航和加速能力也是白搭

更何况，现在根本不是高烈度对抗环境

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Gas turbine frigate makes sense. Again, high speed is good and more power is always good. IEPS with high power would be critical for any future combatant.

tphuang said:

of maybe a 1 GT + 4 diesel IEPS for destroyers.

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1x 40MW gas turbine engine won't be enough for a 9000-10000-ton general purpose DDG. 2x 40MW GTs would be needed, in addition to the 2-4x diesel engines.

On the other hand, 1x 40MW GT is certainly sufficient for an FFG.

tphuang said:

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This is interesting. 1 intake for dual gas turbines.

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The post mentioned 单侧进气 (single-sided air intake), meaning the ship is most certainly a flatdeck.