Chinese Engine Development

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latenlazy

Brigadier
Nx4eu said:
What other engine has a TIT>2000K

This is like saying Americans landed on the moon 50 years ago, So China trying to land on the moon by 2030 is not impressive.

It's no secret the Americans have been ahead in technology over everyone else, they had the head start.
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TIT is not the end all be all driver of engine performance and just because you could drive the temp higher doesn’t mean you should or have to. Ballpark is fine. It’s like people arguing about cameras purely based on megapixel count.
 
Tomboy

Tomboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
tphuang said:
View attachment 162073

so says here that for afterburner, the maximum outlet chamber temperature is 2050K. Which seems to be pretty high? Would make this a 5th gen engine. I'm not translating this correctly but it seems like temperature here is outlet instead of inlet temperature? You need pretty advanced materials to handle that.

Also keep in mind that for RD-33, its dry thrust is 50kN and wet thrust is 81kN. And that is measured in cold Russian environment while WS-19 would have to reach certainly level in much hotter and humid China (especially around SCS, where CV-18 will have to operate).

So, getting to 70kN and 110kN is a pretty big jump for something similar in size (that's 40% greater dry thrust and 36% higher wet thrust). Even if engine is slightly heavier, it would still be a TWR of 10 level of engine. That seems pretty solid to me.

Is there something I'm not getting here? This seems to be beyond what I would expect for WS-19.

What are people still complaining about?
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That 2050K is the reheat exhaust temp not combustion chamber exhaust temp which is only 1850K according to the spec sheet
 
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Tomboy

Tomboy

Senior Member
Registered Member
latenlazy said:
TIT is not the end all be all driver of engine performance and just because you could drive the temp higher doesn’t mean you should or have to. Ballpark is fine. It’s like people arguing about cameras purely based on megapixel count.
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I mean sure but 1850K and 2260K is a massive difference, if lets say WS-19 was at 2200K or something in the ballpark as you say it would be more acceptable. Unless you think China has magically efficient turbines.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Nx4eu said:
It's not the end all indicator, but it is generally a good indicator of technology level.
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Tomboy said:
I mean sure but 1950K and 2260K is a massive difference, if lets say WS-19 was at 2200K or something in the ballpark as you say it would be more acceptable.
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The choice to go with a higher TIT could just as easily mean that they’re trying to drive up thrust with easy wins, aka if your compressor efficiency is lower it may just be easier to drive up TIT to get your specific thrust target. The F135 used the F119’s core, which has a high pressure compression ratio of 6 with 6 stages. Based on the alleged spec sheet this engine which may or may not be the WS-19 has a high pressure compressor ratio of 7 with 5 stages (this is better than the EJ200 and Al-51 fwiw). They may simply have not needed to drive TIT as high as they could to hit design targets and chose to take the win on service life and testing burdens. In general you shouldn’t reduce the technology level of complex machinery just to one or two simple numbers. That’s just not how engineering works.
 
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A

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Tomboy said:
I mean sure but 1850K and 2260K is a massive difference, if lets say WS-19 was at 2200K or something in the ballpark as you say it would be more acceptable. Unless you think China has magically efficient turbines.
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That 2260K value for the F135 engine is the turbine inlet temperature, not outlet temperature.

The 1850K value for the unknown engine (possibly WS-19) is the combustion chamber outlet temperature.
 
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