Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
It's too bad that Ukraine had to give in to US pressure not to do business with China. The Wallstreet article is heavily asserting that China had given up on developing their own indigenous jet engines after numerous failures and gambled on acquiring technologies from Ukraine.
It is a mostly well written article, but it is highly doubtful Ukraine's Motor Sich would be all that helpful in developing a 5th gen fighter engine like the article claims. With regards to its claims about a heavy helicopter engine, Russia and China already have a joint program to develop a heavy helicopter and that will use a yet to be designed and built Russian engine.
Ukraine is pathetic in that it can make helicopter engines, but it can't make helicopters. The Ukrainian government just recently purchased a couple dozen Eurocopter helicopters using French engines for example. The engines they produced were used in Russian designed and produced helicopters and those factories are in Russia.
LoL on wallstreet
I find it difficult to believe that China would give up on its own engine development just because it hoped to get the tech from Ukraine.
Ukraine tech is old technology And also not jet engines for fighter planes nor engines for commercial large planes.
They got some engines that can serve China Soviet style helicopters and engine for trainer plane. Their stuffs are usable but not very desirable
They don't have anything like WS10A/B, WS13, WS15,WS19,WS20 or CJ1000
Its been a long while for me to dip back into this, but I am curious how far China has gotten in the turbine blade side of things. My technical knowledge is limited to RR circa 2004. Back then SRR99 was first gen, CMSX4 was regarded as the second generation single crystal material and RR3000 considered 3rd generation single crystal. RR3000 was for the EJ200, but on the table it said EJ200 uses 2nd generation single crystal alloy, so the generation reference is different between Chinese and Western?
How is the manufacturing process for the cooling vents in China? I remember we used water jets from tubes the size of hairs to make the vent holes in the blades, and some of the Chinese students would grab a few when they went through the factory tour. Have our processes caught up yet?
How is the Chinese coating method as well? We used EB/PVD for the MCrAlY bond coat and the thermal barrier coating back then. I noticed with things like thermal aluminum spray coating is still quite uncommon in China in other industrial application even in the last few years, so I wonder how is these coating process for Chinese aerospace?
Finally, since I am out of the loop for over a decade, what is the bleeding end now for the turbine material? Have we gone all ceramic matrix composite on single crystal oxide fiber? Is Niobium alloy a thing now i.e. did anyone resolve the oxidation problem on them? Or are we still dosing the nickel with Ruthenium and Rhenium? Also, I am curious to know how much these material costs now? Back then it was around 80-85 quid a kilo for bar stock of cmsx4 & rr3000
How is the manufacturing process for the cooling vents in China? I remember we used water jets from tubes the size of hairs to make the vent holes in the blades, and some of the Chinese students would grab a few when they went through the factory tour. Have our processes caught up yet?
How is the Chinese coating method as well? We used EB/PVD for the MCrAlY bond coat and the thermal barrier coating back then. I noticed with things like thermal aluminum spray coating is still quite uncommon in China in other industrial application even in the last few years, so I wonder how is these coating process for Chinese aerospace?
Finally, since I am out of the loop for over a decade, what is the bleeding end now for the turbine material? Have we gone all ceramic matrix composite on single crystal oxide fiber? Is Niobium alloy a thing now i.e. did anyone resolve the oxidation problem on them? Or are we still dosing the nickel with Ruthenium and Rhenium? Also, I am curious to know how much these material costs now? Back then it was around 80-85 quid a kilo for bar stock of cmsx4 & rr3000
Well I think China never exported anything with a WS-10 engine yet.
So I doubt even Western intelligence knows how Chinese engines are manufactured.
I think the Chinese would be happy if they had EJ200 like performance to be honest. That engine has a thrust-to-weight ratio over 9. But if the Chinese are aiming for F135 engine like performance that has even higher thrust-to-weight ratio and higher turbine temperature.
So I doubt even Western intelligence knows how Chinese engines are manufactured.
I think the Chinese would be happy if they had EJ200 like performance to be honest. That engine has a thrust-to-weight ratio over 9. But if the Chinese are aiming for F135 engine like performance that has even higher thrust-to-weight ratio and higher turbine temperature.
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Where in the article does it say this? I don't see it.
Ok guys ... since Motor Sich won't be now a Chnese company we can stop this all here in this thread.
Any further discussion on UKRAINIAN engines and geopolitical considerations can be continued in a thread in the "World Armed Forces" section.
Any further discussion on UKRAINIAN engines and geopolitical considerations can be continued in a thread in the "World Armed Forces" section.