Chinese Engine Development


ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
Isn't the CJ-1000 engine the commercial high bypass turbofan intended for the C919 after first using the P&W Leap engine in initial blocks? When was WS-20 ever intended for C919?
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
No, surely never ever ...
WS-20 flight tests already delivered around 10% if not more thrust than the high bypass engines used in the A320 from the CFM to IAE to PW engines. They're all 90 to 110KN whereas the WS-20 has achieved more than 120KN. Perhaps you were thinking of some other high bypass engines from CFM/PW/GE with the 180KN thrust range.

In any case why are we forgetting the CJ-1000A. I was under the impression the CJ-1000A is further along development compared to the WS-20. WS-20 intended for the Y-20 and the CJ-1000A intended for the C919.
 

latenlazy

Colonel
WS-20 flight tests already delivered around 10% if not more thrust than the high bypass engines used in the A320 from the CFM to IAE to PW engines. They're all 90 to 110KN whereas the WS-20 has achieved more than 120KN. Perhaps you were thinking of some other high bypass engines from CFM/PW/GE with the 180KN thrust range.

In any case why are we forgetting the CJ-1000A. I was under the impression the CJ-1000A is further along development compared to the WS-20. WS-20 intended for the Y-20 and the CJ-1000A intended for the C919.
No. CJ-1000A is only just beginning its testing process. At this point the component technologies are probably more mature so design finalization probably won’t take very long, if it hasn’t happened already, but commercial turbofans have far more rigorous reliability requirements than military engines so its testing process will take much longer.
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
No. CJ-1000A is only just beginning its testing process. At this point the component technologies are probably more mature so design finalization probably won’t take very long, if it hasn’t happened already, but commercial turbofans have far more rigorous reliability requirements than military engines so its testing process will take much longer.
Sounds right. I always thought WS-20 was only brought out quite recently in the last couple of years after Y-20 excitement was over. While CJ-1000A seems to be some old program they are just working on at snail's pace. Definitely agree the commercial aspect is responsible for demanding more time and economics are far trickier because airlines are going to want a very reliable and efficient product otherwise they may as well not bother. But if the US ban Chinese airliner access to western engines, there is no alternative. The Ukrainian and Russian options aren't much better if at all unless they develop some new lines that are competitive with the more modern western commercial high bypass.

Maybe the Chinese gov will just force domestic airlines to accept a "good enough" engine with more frequent maintenance needs and lower efficiency than the latest western equivalents in the 120 to 150KN range. This is if the CJ-1000A get developed to such a maturity level and the US bans all access. Still not the worst lol. Especially if fuel access via Iran is there.

Since China's such a massive market and source of income for western aviation stakeholders, US banning will be pretty bad news for them if the exchange is Chinese domestic airlines have to use less than economically competitive engines. As long as it's safe enough, really couldn't care less. I doubt the US will ban engine sales. It's actually much better long term for China to not go with western engines but between now and CJ-1000A getting to that level if ever, the C919 is stuck without options.
 
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latenlazy

Colonel
Maybe the Chinese gov will just force domestic airlines to accept a "good enough" engine with more frequent maintenance needs and lower efficiency than the latest western equivalents in the 120 to 150KN range. This is if the CJ-1000A get developed to such a maturity level and the US bans all access. Still not the worst lol. Especially if fuel access via Iran is there.
Such a compromise is extremely unlikely. If they rush reliability validation and certification for a commercial project and a plane goes down for it that would destroy trust in Chinese commercial aerospace for years. Commercial projects don’t work like military projects in terms of their risk profile.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
WS-20 flight tests already delivered around 10% if not more thrust than the high bypass engines used in the A320 from the CFM to IAE to PW engines. They're all 90 to 110KN whereas the WS-20 has achieved more than 120KN. Perhaps you were thinking of some other high bypass engines from CFM/PW/GE with the 180KN thrust range.

In any case why are we forgetting the CJ-1000A. I was under the impression the CJ-1000A is further along development compared to the WS-20. WS-20 intended for the Y-20 and the CJ-1000A intended for the C919.

Again, it is not the pure thrust, that values a commercial engine but other specifications like fuel consumption, economics, and ecological considerations and at least by my understanding the WS-20 was never planned for the C919.
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
Such a compromise is extremely unlikely. If they rush reliability validation and certification for a commercial project and a plane goes down for it that would destroy trust in Chinese commercial aerospace for years. Commercial projects don’t work like military projects in terms of their risk profile.
Yes exactly. So I'm saying if the CJ-1000A ever gets to that level of maturity.
 

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