Chinese Engine Development

Deino said:

But aren't we all just "fan-boys" ??

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Well... you have the fan boys like me who sees nice pictures of new equipments and gets excited for a few days, and that's the end of it and move on for some other new eye catching equipments.

And then you have some "fan boys" in SDF who look at the pics and could make in depth analysis on the equipments that would make some so call experts out there blush.

And then you have another type of 'fan boys" who has written books and articles for publishing around the world or being posted on professional websites. Not to mention all the ex-military "fan boys" in SDF. If that's the definition of "fan boys" then I agree we are all just "fan boys".

Back on WS-10A/B, I don't think there was ever any official numbers released regarding WS-10A/B service life. But China's Air Force 5719 engine maintenance plant was able to extend the full life span of eariler AL-31F from 900 hours to 1,500 hours with some modification according one PLA newspaper article a while back. I will expect WS-10A/B full life span and MTBO to be better than AL-31F now.

But then from Wikipedia AL-31F MTBO is 1,000 hours with a full-life span of 3000 hours (Maybe this is the latest variant of AL-31F? Or the AL-31F exported to China was early variant or monkey version.) And 117S MTBO is 1,000 hours with a full-life span of 4,000 hours.

JayBird said:

Well... you have the fan boys like me who sees nice pictures of new equipments and gets excited for a few days, and that's the end of it and move on for some other new eye catching equipments.

And then you have some "fan boys" in SDF who look at the pics and could make in depth analysis on the equipments that would make some so call experts out there blush.

And then you have another type of 'fan boys" who has written books and articles for publishing around the world or being posted on professional websites. Not to mention all the ex-military "fan boys" in SDF. If that's the definition of "fan boys" then I agree we are all just "fan boys".

Back on WS-10A/B, I don't think there was ever any official numbers released regarding WS-10A/B service life. But China's Air Force 5719 engine maintenance plant was able to extend the full life span of eariler AL-31F from 900 hours to 1,500 hours with some modification according one PLA newspaper article a while back. I will expect WS-10A/B full life span and MTBO to be better than AL-31F now.

But then from Wikipedia AL-31F MTBO is 1,000 hours with a full-life span of 3000 hours (Maybe this is the latest variant of AL-31F? Or the AL-31F exported to China was early variant or monkey version.) And 117S MTBO is 1,000 hours with a full-life span of 4,000 hours.

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as i said before about the 900 to 1500 hours. That was shameless propoganda. The Russians easily could've done the same thing in their later variants of AL-31F. The real issue is that the original AL-31F that China got was giving no where near the service life that was proclaimed. So they to go through the MRO line much sooner and then China replaced them with domestic parts and was able to extend their life as you would expect with any major overhaul.

What about the WS-13 turbofans? Any news on either its development or more imports of the Kilmov RD93?

Blackstone said:

What about the WS-13 turbofans? Any news on either its development or more imports of the Kilmov RD93?

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There was an article maybe from few weeks ago claiming the engines used on J-31 is in fact WS-13, it's just that WS-13 is basically exact clone of RD93 that you can't tell the difference between these two engines.

Of course... we don't know if that is really the case or not. The information was from some aero related newspapers in China and it kind of stir up a lot of debate on this topic few weeks ago on chinese forums but nothing conclusive one way or the other.

Blackstone said:

What about the WS-13 turbofans? Any news on either its development or more imports of the Kilmov RD93?

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https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/jf-17-fc-1-fighter-aircraft-thread.t5634/page-222#post-368393

I find the above a bit confusing:

1. Purported increase from 8.7 Ton to 9.3 Ton (almost) is not 'slight'.
2. What is the point of developing WS-13, when Chinese have Russian commitment for 500 engines? If 275 JF-17 along with foreseeable exports can be catered with this number, then why bother with WS-13 at all?
3. I think that 500 engines may continue to serve JF-17 Block-1 & Block-2 fleet, plus any exports requiring / mandating RD-93 variants. May be JF-17 Block-3, and future J-31 requirements would be satisfied via WS-13. I can not be sure about this though. Can anyone make a better guess?
4. With seeming secrecy surrounding WS-13 program, one would think that it is some sort of a surprise waiting to happen. Feels unreal.

As far as I know these 500 engines are not already ordered but more a letter of intent to purchase ... or am I wrong !

As such an own engines makes sense ...

Deino said:

As far as I know these 500 engines are not already ordered but more a letter of intent to purchase ... or am I wrong !

As such an own engines makes sense ...

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Insurance against WS-13 delays?

Blackstone said:

Insurance against WS-13 delays?

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For sale to future customers who can't afford China's WS-13 engines.

Equation said:

For sale to future customers who can't afford China's WS-13 engines.

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Given current Chinese arms sales model, it's probable WS-13 engines would be cheaper and perform a bit better too. Time will tell, I'm not at all convinced we'll see WS-13 anytime soon.