Chinese Economics Thread

[takwb]

I doubt you have worked in China since your views are completely out of date.
Full time workers in China has what you call 5xian1jin, or 6 insurances, covering injury, retirement, health, loss of employment, reproduction and housing, both employer and employee contribute to this, and it makes up quite a bit of the package, depending on which province/city you live in.
I'll use fatality at work in China as an example.
If someone died at work due to work reasons, there is these components.
1. 1 off funeral costs, indexed at 6 x average monthly salary of the local area.
2. 1 off death allowance, indexed at 20x annual national average income.
3. Family support, indexed as a % of their salary before death. This include parents (30% from age 55/60 to death or 40% if only 1), partner (40% from 55/60 to death if they do not have their own retirement fund), and kids (30% until 18 or 40% if other parent deceased also).

Lets say you have a 10 year old, a working wife and both your parents are still alive, and live in a city where the average income is 6,000 rmb a month, and the national average income is 40,000 rmb and you earn 10,000 RMB a month, and you died from overworking your 37.5 hour week, then your payout will be:
1. 36,000 for your funeral,
2. 800,000 rmb death compensation
3. 3,000 x 8 x 12 = 288,000 for your son, 3000 x 12 x 25 = 900,000 for your mum assuming she dies in 25 years time, 3000 x 12 x 20 = 720,000 for your dad assuming he dies in 20 years time, that is another 1,908,000, depending on how soon your family dies.
So your total package for dying is 2.744 million RMB or around $400,000 US. This should be coming from your insurance.
This is actually quite similar to the likes of Australia, and pretty high comparatively speaking based on income level, and the widows and dependents can live relatively comfortably on it. (Don't let your wife find out or she will egg you on to die at work hehe)

In all honesty, safety has drastically improved in China over the last 10-15 years in most industries. Chinese lives actually matters now because of higher living standards and the country is richer, and safety stats have came down dramatically. Not just that, the workers still have their common sense about them which helps on top of the increased regulations and better PPE/training. I just ran a 25 million man hour job in China LTI free, under Exxon HSE definitions. Might be worth revisiting China when the borders reopen so you can update your views and reevaluate....

Nah, nvm that cringy WASP, dude ...
He obviously has a massive inferiority complex in front the Chinese, especially with the self-inflicted shitshow of Brexit which is somehow getting even worse by the day.
Watching his civilization collapse probably isn't fun for him. lol.

 

[Overbom]

bro they will used a Chinese OEM systems and parts and assign a Car manufacturer to assemble the car and put their badge on it, just like Apple. They will used Huawei system, BYD batteries and let JAC assemble the car, What do they invest and innovate? I'm being a cynic and sarcastic cause Xiaomi is never been known as an innovator, they are just a cheap manufacturer (sorry wrong use of words it should be a seller) of Smartphone and are now trying its hand on EV cause China had many EV based suppliers, Just like I said they follow what Apple is doing, they have NO originality!

@ansy1968 bro I am just saying that based on economics their investment plan makes sense. Better to outsource all these things im the beginning to quickly roll out a product to the market to see if there is a any future for them in that industry. If a lot of sales are made then Xiaomi will surely start becoming a normal car manufacturer.
But, if not too many sales, then Xiaomi can quickly exit the business without losing too much money (because they didnt invest in building their own components)

I never see them invest in Physical structure like a CHIP FAB and even their chip design never took off, Its a total failure.

I agree with this. Xiaomi has been very disappointing on the R&D field. However that may be partly because they have very low-profit margins on their smartphone sales which cripples their ability to throw a lot of cash (from profits) in R&D. AFAIK the last year, Xiaomi has been shifting to the high-end smartphone business which has a lot of profit margin for the company


Ultimately its all part of the business plan. Xiaomi focused on very low profits which meant that Xiaomi doesn't have a lot of cash to start building factories and making their own cars like other companies. Which is why you see them try to always buy from other companies first

As for the Apple Car, thats inexcusable. Apple has plenty of cash to do whatever it wants but it still focuses on software for the car.

 

[ansy1968]

@ansy1968 bro I am just saying that based on economics their investment plan makes sense. Better to outsource all these things im the beginning to quickly roll out a product to the market to see if there is a any future for them in that industry. If a lot of sales are made then Xiaomi will surely start becoming a normal car manufacturer.
But, if not too many sales, then Xiaomi can quickly exit the business without losing too much money (because they didnt invest in building their own components)





I agree with this. Xiaomi has been very disappointing on the R&D field. However that may be partly because they have very low-profit margins on their smartphone sales which cripples their ability to throw a lot of cash (from profits) in R&D. AFAIK the last year, Xiaomi has been shifting to the high-end smartphone business which has a lot of profit margin for the company


Ultimately its all part of the business plan. Xiaomi focused on very low profits which meant that Xiaomi doesn't have a lot of cash to start building factories and making their own cars like other companies. Which is why you see them try to always buy from other companies first

As for the Apple Car, thats inexcusable. Apple has plenty of cash to do whatever it wants but it still focuses on software for the car.

@Overbom bro we're good and you're right of course, I'm just saying that for me Xiaomi is not a tech company more of a marketing seller.

 

[Anlsvrthng]

There's a little game I like to play with the China bashers which is calculating how much China's GDP has grown since they joined. @Anlsvrthng joined in 2017, since then China has grown by 20% while the UK has grown by 1.7%. No, that's not a typo, that 1.7% growth over three years, i.e., less than 0.6% growth per annum. Where do these people find the nerve to even discuss China's economy?

There are two group of people in every country :
1. wealthy and powerfull
2. average citizen

The GDP growth increase the wealth of the #1 group.

Let see how the #2 group fare in China compared to UK.

So, GDP per capita PPP:
China : 19k USD
UK : 47k USD

GDP per capita, nominal:
China:10.5k USD
UK : 40k USD


Now, Household consumption share from GDP (2019 data) :
China : 39.25%
UK : 64.04%

Property prices per square meter, capital :
China : 6513 USD
UK: 8557 USD


Household available money :
China : per capita GDP * % of consumption =4 125 USD
UK : per capita GDP * % of consumption = 25 760 USD


Means 1.5 year of sallary reqired for a Chinese to buy one sqm in the capital, for a British it needs 4 month of sallary.

Add together with the fact the average Chinese works 47 hours a week compared to the 37 hours of a British.

After all of this claim that in China they prefer the family above the wealhy/oligarch/corporate/goverment needs is very funny and laughable : D


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google search:
uk gdp per capita
China gdp per capita

 

[W20]

On the one hand what you have argued is the importance of the Sea for maritime navigation in the Mediterranean Sea, that is: that UK is a rich country and that China has a long way to go

On the other hand you contradict yourself because you use GDP as a measure, mixing the common people with the powerful and wealthy class

 

[Overbom]

There are two group of people in every country :
1. wealthy and powerfull
2. average citizen

The GDP growth increase the wealth of the #1 group.

Let see how the #2 group fare in China compared to UK.

So, GDP per capita PPP:
China : 19k USD
UK : 47k USD

GDP per capita, nominal:
China:10.5k USD
UK : 40k USD


Now, Household consumption share from GDP (2019 data) :
China : 39.25%
UK : 64.04%

Property prices per square meter, capital :
China : 6513 USD
UK: 8557 USD


Household available money :
China : per capita GDP * % of consumption =4 125 USD
UK : per capita GDP * % of consumption = 25 760 USD


Means 1.5 year of sallary reqired for a Chinese to buy one sqm in the capital, for a British it needs 4 month of sallary.

Add together with the fact the average Chinese works 47 hours a week compared to the 37 hours of a British.

After all of this claim that in China they prefer the family above the wealhy/oligarch/corporate/goverment needs is very funny and laughable : D


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google search:
uk gdp per capita
China gdp per capita

Yawn.
UK is a developed country while China is a developing country.

Also the most important thing, UK is rich because it plundered the whole world. While China is getting richer by making money the "good" way, that is exporting useful goods with fair prices to the rest of the world

So, no comparison can be made between them, except GDP growth. And thats where China is beating the UK so much

 

[Overbom]

It's completely fair to say that Chinese living standards are broadly lower than those of the UK, US or EU

Yes, because Chinese surely like to get bankrupt whenever they visit a hospital like in the US....

Or they like to have so much crime and petty thieves in their cities. Or they want to get gunned down by the crazies with guns in America

So in these 2 metrics alone China is heads and shoulders above the US. Healthcare, safety

And what about drugs. Many poor people are like zombies due to drugs, while the rest of the Americans shrug their shoulders and move on. Surely thats another thing that the Chinese would like to emulate from the US...

 

[Godzilla]

Shouldn't really compare with the US for everything. I mean, the Chinese health system, while cheap, will still destroy your life if you or family do end up with a serious illness and still will bankrupt your family. For all of UK's ills, NHS is definitely one of its shining lights for its citizens. Same could be said for Medicare in Australia, and the subsidized medications. They might be slow, but you rarely have to worry too much about not affording those life threatening treatments cause the government will end up footing the bill.
It'll be awesome if one day China's health system is on par with those.

 

[Overbom]

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This is why I mentioned why many Chinese dont like to invest in companies and prefer to just buy another house

In a note this month, Fitch ratings agency said that Fantasia Holdings Group (1777.HK), a property developer which has since defaulted, had recently told it "for the first time" that it had $150 million of private bonds that do not appear to have been reported in its financial statements.

^^Fraud

The company had over $4 billion worth of cash at the end of June and two weeks before it defaulted said that it had "ample capital".

^^Fraud x2.

Can you see how much corruption and fraud exists. So they said "we have $4 bln cash" and "we have ample capital", and some weeks later it defaulted... lol

 

[Anlsvrthng]

Yawn.
UK is a developed country while China is a developing country.

Also the most important thing, UK is rich because it plundered the whole world. While China is getting richer by making money the "good" way, that is exporting useful goods with fair prices to the rest of the world

So, no comparison can be made between them, except GDP growth. And thats where China is beating the UK so much

The above is NOT an analysis about the countries relative to each other , China vs UK, but rather analysis about the average person ratio of wealth from all wealth of the country.
So, it is not relative to the other country, but relative to its own economy.


Not so complicated, just try to think about it logically .