Time for western nationa to learn that when you hit at others, be prepared to get hit back at. The era of western powers imposing their will or enjoying one-sided bullying is coming to an end.
Chinese Economics Thread
- Thread starter Norfolk
- Start date
They won't want it to end because they still feel they are totally entitled to screwing the rest of the world simply because it's been that way for generations. China balancing things with Australia has been a long time coming. The most aggressive of US lapdog nations. Also happens to be the easiest one to deal with thanks to their over-dependence on China. Australian businesses and politicians have been having their cake and eating it for way too long. Unfortunately it would also mean diminishing quality of life for Australians if an economic war is fought. They should be blaming their government and the businesses that have gotten used to Chinese donations in the billions. With that money, hopefully they've invested in worthy pursuits rather than overpriced realestate and expensive German cars... oh wait. At least those degree farms have some fancy new buildings I guess.
Jura The idiot
General
expensive German cars huh I don't who's spent more on them if I look at
car sales in China for 2019 / 2018
Audi : 620,001 / 620,300
Mercedes-Benz : 595,486 / 513,108
BMW : 544,500 / 465,044
Very true that Chinese prop up so many overpriced European luxury companies from cosmetics to bags to shoes to clothing to cars. We shouldn't be doing them so much patronage. However when it comes to these cars at least, there is definitely a return in China's favour. Sometimes to China's "unfair" advantage. That being, VW-Audi group transfers technology to Chinese partners in the past to access its market. It's the reason VW-Audi is so beloved in China and popular. The money it has made from China is re-invested to improve itself and remain relatively competitive with other luxury brands. Maserati is a great example. It was selling a few dozen cars a year in some countries and barely a few hundred globally and all of a sudden they focused all marketing in China and literally overnight multiplied their sales for a few years straight.
For some of these German ones, most of them are built in China as part of the agreement. So it's unlike Australian people with some money who will re-finance their $3 million dollar Sydney house and buy two Mercs and a Range Rover. They are doomed when the recession eventually arrives. It'll become Australia's 2008.
Quickie
Colonel
The news is reported here.
China Suspends Meat Imports From Four Australian Abattoirs
By
May 11, 2020, 11:24 AM GMT+8 Updated on May 12, 2020, 10:42 AM GMT+8
- Australian dollar falls amid fears of escalating tensions
- Australia also faces prospect of tariffs on barley shipments
For a fresh perspective on the stories that matter for Australian business and politics, .
China has suspended meat imports from four Australian abattoirs, fueling concerns that escalating tensions between the two nations are damaging Australia’s most important trading relationship.
The suspension will start on May 12, according to a statement on a customs website. The four plants make up about 35% of Australian beef exports to China, according to the Australian Broadcasting Corp.
Australia has stoked tensions with China in recent weeks by calling for an independent probe into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic. Australia is also facing the looming threat of major tariffs on its barley shipments to China.
The Australian dollar dropped as much as 0.9% to 64.32 U.S. cents. , the nation’s largest integrated cattle and beef producer, fell as much as 5.6%, the most in 6 weeks. Elders Ltd., which helps sell and buy livestock across Australia, China, Indonesia and Vietnam, dropped as much as 6.9%, the most since Mar. 23.
The halt related to labeling and health certification requirements, Australian Trade Minister Simon Birmingham said in a statement. The government was concerned that they “appear to be based on highly technical issues, which in some cases date back more than a year.”
“We will work with industry and authorities in both Australia and China to seek to find a solution that allows these businesses to resume their normal operations as soon as possible,” he said.
The Australian Meat Industry Council said the matter was a “trade and market access issue.”
“While not desirable, we have dealt with issues of this nature before,” Chief Executive Officer Patrick Hutchinson said in a statement.
As the most China-dependent developed nation, Australia has a lot to lose if the relationship deteriorates.
Ties with China were damaged in 2018 when Australia passed laws aimed at negating Beijing’s influence in national affairs and barred Huawei Technologies Co. from building its 5G network. A subsequent slowdown of Australian coal imports into Chinese ports was blamed on the tensions.
Australia’s call for a probe into the origins of the virus have further strained ties. Beijing has labeled calls for the investigation “politically motivated” and warning of a potential consumer boycott of Australian products.
Three facilities in Queensland, including JBS-owned abattoirs near Toowoomba and Ipswich, and Kilcoy Pastoral Co., were suspended, as well as Northern Co-operative’s abattoir in Casino, New South Wales.
JBS has been informed that the suspensions relate to a range of technical issues and the company is working with the agriculture department to understand the problems, it said in a statement.
The Dinmore beef processing facility, near Ipswich, is the biggest beef processing plant in the southern hemisphere, according to its .
The Australian government said it’s been given until May 19 to deliver its final defense against a Chinese anti-dumping probe into the country’s exports of barley.
— With assistance by Tim Smith, Garfield Clinton Reynolds, and Shuping Niu
Those luxury handbags, clothing, accessories, and cosmetics literally contribute the least to a society while actually working at making a society more materialistic in a bad way (unlike being able to engineer useful tools to better the world). Although the status symbol seeking lifecycle has promoted capitalism and facilitated progress to some degree. It's just our motivations ought to be refined. Rather than working just so one can upgrade from a Toyota to a Mercedes, money and symbolic gestures should be supplemented by various forms of social recognition for virtuous work. There are hints of this in many societies and in China the government hands out some state issued awards for recognition but this probably doesn't change anyone's behaviour unless they're some hardcore idealist.
If Chinese people stopped buying Apple products and overpriced French/Italian/Swiss luxury goods, those industries and entire economies would falter overnight. They'd need to scale back so much, they can no longer access the funds to maintain the high value status. It's time China went on the offensive with its still advantageous position. If they want to boycott Chinese goods, let them. They'll need to work harder for less AND take serious hits to living standards before low value manufacturing returns. The smarter folk know that high value is where it's at but to maintain competitiveness is becoming increasingly difficult nowadays. Therefore bitch and moan about it all the way back to equality.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
While I very much agree that this greed and lust for foreign luxuries is a blood-letting area for the Chinese economy and also that it rewards the incorrect attitude towards life, I also believe that it has a place... for now.
I feel that the Chinese government has harnessed this otherwise negative energy and desire, to grow China's economy. When people yearn for status symbol items and to be perceived as rich, they put their life effort into making money and actually becoming rich. This drive, almost as strong as the instinct to survive in many Chinese, is a major force behind China's economy growing so quickly. These people earning so much money so they can consume so many luxuries (while paying the taxes to do so) and frivolously spend money in fear that any frugality will be perceived as poverty, drives and boosts Chinese domestic consumption as well as per capita income/GDP.
I, for one, am the opposite of such a person. I have never craved a material luxury before since I was ingrained by my father from a very young age that men should desire only 2 things in limitless fashion: first is the knowledge in his mind, and the second is the athletic capability of his body. So, being that I desire so little material things, my spending is paltry; it's insignificant. No matter how much money I have, I will never buy any car more expensive than perhaps a base Sonata and I will always choose to buy used for a good deal. I biked my way through all of college and grad school saving thousands in parking and gas fee. I hoard healthy food when it's on sale (<50%, often 25-30% full price) so I don't have to buy any more food until the next sale and barely any clothes all year. Even when I do, it's from Goodwill and I'll spend like $4 for a shirt or pants if I bust a pair. Then there's my $20 a month gym membership, $20 internet fee, utilities, and other than that, I really don't have any other expenditures. (Restaurant expenses go up when I have a girlfriend, though, but I still don't buy her expensive gifts because that's nursing a bad habit.) This is how I spend money regardless of my income. If a society were made of people like me, the economy would be minuscule! So in that sense, from people like me to the ones who would die for luxury or money, there's use in society for everyone.
Ideally, China would develop its own luxury lines that eclipse all foreign ones so these high spenders can give that boost to domestic consumption without bleeding Chinese money outwards, but until then, I can only tell my girlfriend, "It's not about money. I would rather buy you $3,000 worth of different Chinese bags than buy you a $1,000 foreign bag."
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This is indeed a rare, possibly none-existent attitude (being practiced) in China. Out of the Chinese people I know with the means to, they are on their 10th Rolex and CRAVE the new $20,000 "Hulk" or because one of their friends has a BMW X5 they MUST exceed them with a BMW X6. It's this attitude that separates wealthy Chinese from South Koreans and Japanese and partly why China, at least in the short to medium future, will not develop its own luxury consumer products outside of electronics, telecomm, and computing. Few if any significant number of Chinese people will support such businesses and even fewer foreigners will. Where Chinese maufacturing does win favour world-wide (despite name calling and soundbites) is in mass produced inexpensive stuff. I suppose money talks and as long as this money is made and properly invested, I couldn't care less that no Chinese luxury consumer brands exist. TaTa group owns Jaguar... money and military are the only tangible things of real worth to a country. Learned from the old colonial masters. Private property, laws that govern this, and the violent forces that enforce them.
Chinese people have been in poverty for so long I suppose and this whole spending should be a form of catharsis where hopefully the materialists eventually realise there is no pot of gold at the end of this shopping spree rainbow but a pot of shit. Material wealth beyond a certain point of diminishing returns does not bring satisfaction, if anything it robs people of it like so many cults/religions/movements have spouted along history. Of course you're right too and I agreed in my post that there is still some point to all the spending. It's just being directed in less than ideal places. No one's got this right though and each society deals with their own demon in this respect. Soon enough we'll have consumed our way into the abyss, surrounded by discarded plastic while fighting over the last shred of breathable air, drinkable water, and burnable fossil. Now if the STEM people around the world could lead it, there may be a hope for all of us. Unfortunately rather than actual progress and cooperation, we've got this whole thing and finger pointing. Evil doesn't recognise its own reflection in the West and through their arrogance and inability to think as a group, we're all being steered towards serious confrontations. When I was younger, I actually believed the drivel about China being some antagonist in all this, somehow... because the narrative isn't questioned and devilishly manipulative, until I noticed and realised the truths. I guess it was easier to blame China for every associated ill. Different race, nationality, political structure, and China itself is far from perfect like every other society and people. It's all so easy and comfortable to have a "satan" figure conveniently placed to explain everything away.
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Hopefully the craze with luxury items is just a fad, much like it was a fad in Japan until the 1980s. Japanese used to buy luxury brand items and travel overseas to showcase how successful they are.
Now not many Japanese travel overseas anymore because they have discovered it is mostly over-hyped. Same thing happened with luxury brand items as it has lost its glamour and prestige, They discovered that there are many craftsman in Japan that can provide better quality products at less cost and designed uniquely to their taste and lifestyle. Fashionistas are more focused now on finding a craftsman or artist that can provide unique products to project one's individualism and lifestyle.
People crave luxury goods item to stand out and show their individualism. Yet the irony you loose your uniqueness once everyone around you becomes affluent and can afford the same luxury goods.
Now not many Japanese travel overseas anymore because they have discovered it is mostly over-hyped. Same thing happened with luxury brand items as it has lost its glamour and prestige, They discovered that there are many craftsman in Japan that can provide better quality products at less cost and designed uniquely to their taste and lifestyle. Fashionistas are more focused now on finding a craftsman or artist that can provide unique products to project one's individualism and lifestyle.
People crave luxury goods item to stand out and show their individualism. Yet the irony you loose your uniqueness once everyone around you becomes affluent and can afford the same luxury goods.