Chinese Economics Thread

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That's why US is in a huge dilemma, on one hand it hope China will remain an obedient developing nation that will remain a huge market for US technology to earn revenue and support R&D.
On the other hand, US do not want China to move up the tech value chain and challenge US. Both desires are contradictory since it is only natural that as a nation develop, she will seek to move up the tech chain, esp even more for a nation like China that have the prerequisite to be a a superpower, and her long hate for the selective containment(socially, technologically, ideologically) by the Western bloc since the 50s.

As a result what US essential want is a total control of the free market, making sure China MUST buy US tech products, BUT those that are not the latest gen. Yet China cannot develop on her domestic tech too, since it will be labelled as state-led initiative(forgo DARPA).

US only accept a free market in which US is the total winner.

It’s why they push “democracy” in developing countries. They get to control the media, politics and policies in those countries.

The US doesn’t take votes when it does foreign policy.

I can’t imagine what sort of suffering the Chinese people would go through had dogs like Josh wong had their way.

 

[Gatekeeper]

It won't surprise me if China's economy remain flat by end of year. That's roughly $15T per year, where as US could drop as much as 10% to roughly $18T (back of a fag packet calculation, so please don't beat me up over it. It just a guess). And then all bet is on the rebound. China's Chernobyl moment indeed.

 

[Jura The idiot]

two related stories (hard to comment at this point in time I mean an overall influence of the pandemic on the trade deal is yet unknown):

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US-China trade negotiators vow to save phase one deal on first call during pandemic

• China’s Vice-Premier Liu He, US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and US Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer spoke by phone on Friday to discuss bilateral trade
• China is not close to meeting US purchase demands as part of phase one deal, with the coronavirus disrupting supply chains on both sides

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[PiSigma]

I like how Chinese economists maintain that having a robust manufacturing sector is important as it is the 'real' physical economy, compared to being to dependent on service sector and monetory market which are essentially what the chinese refer to as XuHuang(virtual?) economy.

From a classical economics pov, the real economy is mostly primary and secondary (extraction of resources and manufacturing). Services and professional services is value added to support the first two. The problem with FIRE is it doesn't add real value.

 

[vincent]

From a classical economics pov, the real economy is mostly primary and secondary (extraction of resources and manufacturing). Services and professional services is value added to support the first two. The problem with FIRE is it doesn't add real value.

Just watched the movie Fracture. What exactly all those high-price lawyer contribute to the society and do their contributions worth the money they are getting

 

[PiSigma]

Just watched the movie Fracture. What exactly all those high-price lawyer contribute to the society and do their contributions worth the money they are getting

Exactly. It's just money going in circles doing nothing. Same thing with derivatives. But since money changed hands, it is generating GDP, which is just dumb.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Just watched the movie Fracture. What exactly all those high-price lawyer contribute to the society and do their contributions worth the money they are getting

Exactly. It's just money going in circles doing nothing. Same thing with derivatives. But since money changed hands, it is generating GDP, which is just dumb.

I love the spirit of what I'm reading, but let me play devil's advocate for a bit (and contribute nothing of value to the economy). In a society organized around markets and private property, you do need some mechanism to resolve economic disputes (among other societal disputes). Therefore, any dispute resolution mechanism will require a degree of economic support no matter what, even though it doesn't contribute value in the way that, for example, engineering does. Obviously, this has grown rampantly out of control in America and the West in general.

The same holds true of banking. Any society organized around capital accumulation will need some mechanism to lend capitalism to productive enterprises. The problem arises when these loops emerge where capital is just flowing in circles and never touching anything productive.

 

[vincent]

I love the spirit of what I'm reading, but let me play devil's advocate for a bit (and contribute nothing of value to the economy). In a society organized around markets and private property, you do need some mechanism to resolve economic disputes (among other societal disputes). Therefore, any dispute resolution mechanism will require a degree of economic support no matter what, even though it doesn't contribute value in the way that, for example, engineering does. Obviously, this has grown rampantly out of control in America and the West in general.

The same holds true of banking. Any society organized around capital accumulation will need some mechanism to lend capitalism to productive enterprises. The problem arises when these loops emerge where capital is just flowing in circles and never touching anything productive.

But do the lawyers and bankers' contributions worth the money they are paid? All those fancy offices, cars, private jets, etc

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

But do the lawyers and bankers' contributions worth the money they are paid? All those fancy offices, cars, private jets, etc

Of course not. Their fancy cars, offices, jets, houses, etc. reflect their social power in the US, which is a result of the US's culture and history. In China where engineering and science are valued more highly (and rightly so), they are paid far less even accounting for China's overall lower per capita GDP. There's no mechanism in capitalist societies to stop parasitic capture of value - you charge whatever you can get away with charging.

 

[Dolcevita]

The reason US needs so many lawyers and paid so much is because the Law is so convoluted and malleable.