Chinese Economics Thread

[BoraTas]

Especially Turkish people. They need to stop their Ottoman Empire fantasies.

As a Turk, I agree. It hurts for me to say this but Turkey is just one of those eternally middle-income countries. BTW most Turks are extremely racist against people from poor countries. I'd love to see these change but it doesn't seem to be possible for the current generation.

 

[voyager1]

As a Turk, I agree. It hurts for me to say this but Turkey is just one of those eternally middle-income countries. BTW most Turks are extremely racist against people from poor countries. I'd love to see these change but it doesn't seem to be possible for the current generation.

Erdogan policies have not been that great...

I mean if you want to show that Turkey is a strong country it should start propping up its domestic economy. You cant start making enemies all over the region with a weak domestic economy supporting you.

There is also a strong nationalist sentiment among its people (not patriotism) which is extremely dangerous for Turkey if it doesn't start pressing it down.

So.my advice to Erdogan would be, fix your economy and then you can start your adventures externally

 

[weig2000]

Erdogan policies have not been that great...

I mean if you want to show that Turkey is a strong country it should start propping up its domestic economy. You cant start making enemies all over the region with a weak domestic economy supporting you.

There is also a strong nationalist sentiment among its people (not patriotism) which is extremely dangerous for Turkey if it doesn't start pressing it down.

So.my advice to Erdogan would be, fix your economy and then you can start your adventures externally

It might have to do with national politics, i.e., democratic or election process. If you want to get elected, you need something to appeal to large body of masses. Occasionally, you have some ambitious leader pressing certain hot-button or emotional issues. Turkey is not the only country with such issues. Even some of the more mature western democracies also suffer from the same problem.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Erdogan policies have not been that great...

I mean if you want to show that Turkey is a strong country it should start propping up its domestic economy. You cant start making enemies all over the region with a weak domestic economy supporting you.

There is also a strong nationalist sentiment among its people (not patriotism) which is extremely dangerous for Turkey if it doesn't start pressing it down.

So.my advice to Erdogan would be, fix your economy and then you can start your adventures externally

Well I will be the devil advocate here , He is politician and he has to answer to his constituent eventually. There strong link between Turk and Uyghur whether it is real or perceive. Actually ERdogan moderate quite a lot compare to earlier year. He used to be much more forceful of proponent of greater Turk.

I use to work with a Turk guy he is ethnically Turk but his family lived in Irak for generations look more like Arab the family return to Turkey. He married Kazakh Chinese who look like Han Chinese. He told me he has no problem with communication both of them can understand each other language. He said his wife family was part of the Kazakh rebellion in 1950's That rebellion was quashed and many find refugee in Turkey. The turkish government consider any ethnic Turk Turkish and allowed residence in Turkey. I guess the same with Uyghur. But his father in law is longing for his homeland and become home sick. In 1970 the Chinese government give amnesty to the Kazakh rebel and allow them to come home . But there is no connection between Turkey and China at that time So he has to travel to Soviet union by Train and from there to Kazak region of Illi in Xinjiang.

You see there is strong web of family, history, language and culture between Turkey and Xinjiang. So I think China should know about the connection and be sensitive about it . I am not saying that the accusation of genocide is true more than likely is it fake. for the majority of people life is normal . but I can understand China iron grip on Xinjiang. Kazah Moslem is traditionally very tolerant and secular But during 80's many of them travel and study in Egypt and SA bringing back the wahabi sect teaching that is more intolerant and resent Chinese legitimate ownership of Xinjiang coupled that with destabilizing effort by the western power it become explosive

 

[voyager1]

Well I will be the devil advocate here , He is politician and he has to answer to his constituent eventually. There strong link between Turk and Uyghur whether it is real or perceive. Actually ERdogan moderate quite a lot compare to earlier year. He used to be much more forceful of proponent of greater Turk.

I use to work with a Turk guy he is ethnically Turk but his family lived in Irak for generations look more like Arab the family return to Turkey. He married Kazakh Chinese who look like Han Chinese. He told me he has no problem with communication both of them can understand each other language. He said his wife family was part of the Kazakh rebellion in 1950's That rebellion was quashed and many find refugee in Turkey. The turkish government consider any ethnic Turk Turkish and allowed residence in Turkey. I guess the same with Uyghur. But his father in law is longing for his homeland and become home sick. In 1970 the Chinese government give amnesty to the Kazakh rebel and allow them to come home . But there is no connection between Turkey and China at that time So he has to travel to Soviet union by Train and from there to Kazak region of Illi in Xinjiang.

You see there is strong web of family, history, language and culture between Turkey and Xinjiang. So I think China should know about the connection and be sensitive about it . I am not saying that the accusation of genocide is true more than likely is it fake. for the majority of people life is normal . but I can understand China iron grip on Xinjiang. Kazah Moslem is traditionally very tolerant and secular But during 80's many of them travel and study in Egypt and SA bringing back the wahabi sect teaching that is more intolerant and resent Chinese legitimate ownership of Xinjiang coupled that with destabilizing effort by the western power it become explosive

Agreed, to me sometimes it seems that China is struggling to understand other countries.

You see it with the EU. So a fringe Parliament member who nobody cares about who represents a 5% party in a country says something about China, the Chinese embassy then fires back strongly ("Wolf Warrior") and then next day all the news are saying about how China attacked their country.

Now mind you, that media is not always US backed, but because China responds to an idiot's comments, they give him credibility and allow him to market himself as a defending the country from Chinese aggression.

So you see, in a democracy things are messy and China must learn to choose its battles. Do you think that in the Mediterranean countries the US is loved? You basically see someone every weak being "anti-imperialist", accusing, slandering the US but you dont see the US embassies making statements left and right on the media.

If you dont believe me go watch some fringe Democratic parties in the EU countries to see what they are saying about the US, you would think they are ready for a 2nd USSR to take down the US lol

 

[AssassinsMace]

The Republicans are all-of-the-sudden anti-corporation. Of course it's been going on before throughout Trump's reign mainly because social media companies weren't loyal to the Republican Party like traditional corporations. But now you see Republican leaders threatening traditional US corporations for taking a stand on domestic issues from Black Lives Matters to the recent undemocratic Georgia laws on voting they just passed. It's really a whole lot of things happening all at once but you know what's really got them in a panic is China's blacklist where anyone on it, China will have no business with anyone who hires them or any of blacklisted's family members. More than anyone else Republicans when they retire from government service expect to be on executive boards of corporations especially the largest ones but those tend to go hand-in-hand with being international corporations who want to make money from China. It's all the money they were to make after government service they were counting on for the their livelihood because if they made it while they were in government service, they would arrested on corruption charges. If they want to be anti-China, China just cut that off. China just nuked a major perk why Republicans run for office.

 

[canniBUS]

The Republicans are all-of-the-sudden anti-corporation. Of course it's been going on before throughout Trump's reign mainly because social media companies weren't loyal to the Republican Party like traditional corporations. But now you see Republican leaders threatening traditional US corporations for taking a stand on domestic issues from Black Lives Matters to the recent undemocratic Georgia laws on voting they just passed. It's really a whole lot of things happening all at once but you know what's really got them in a panic is China's blacklist where anyone on it, China will have no business with anyone who hires them or any of blacklisted's family members. More than anyone else Republicans when they retire from government service expect to be on executive boards of corporations especially the largest ones but those tend to go hand-in-hand with being international corporations who want to make money from China. It's all the money they were to make after government service they were counting on for the their livelihood because if they made it while they were in government service, they would arrested on corruption charges. If they want to be anti-China, China just cut that off. China just nuked a major perk why Republicans run for office.

A good time to turn the Republican party into a communist party.

 

[BoraTas]

Agreed, to me sometimes it seems that China is struggling to understand other countries.

You see it with the EU. So a fringe Parliament member who nobody cares about who represents a 5% party in a country says something about China, the Chinese embassy then fires back strongly ("Wolf Warrior") and then next day all the news are saying about how China attacked their country.

Now mind you, that media is not always US backed, but because China responds to an idiot's comments, they give him credibility and allow him to market himself as a defending the country from Chinese aggression.

So you see, in a democracy things are messy and China must learn to choose its battles. Do you think that in the Mediterranean countries the US is loved? You basically see someone every weak being "anti-imperialist", accusing, slandering the US but you dont see the US embassies making statements left and right on the media.

If you dont believe me go watch some fringe Democratic parties in the EU countries to see what they are saying about the US, you would think they are ready for a 2nd USSR to take down the US lol

China is inexperienced in modern diplomacy. But it is a fast learner. I bet we will see a different China in 2030.

 

[AssassinsMace]

A good time to turn the Republican party into a communist party.

When I was in college there were "The Young Republicans". If you listen to what they believe in, they think just like communists. They believe in one-party rule where Republicans should be running everything and everything has to get the okay of Republicans.

 

[weig2000]

China is inexperienced in modern diplomacy. But it is a fast learner. I bet we will see a different China in 2030.

I wouldn't agree with such a characterization entirely. To understand, think about this way:

Firstly, think about where PRC has come along from between '50s-'70s when its was so isolated in the world stage. How it had maneuvered against the two superpowers of the time which were both hostile to it. It regained its permanent member seat of the UNSC in the '70s and reintegrated into the global system without giving up its autonomy, and has become what it is today. Diplomacy has played a large part in it.

Secondly, don't just look at western countries. China has friendly relationships with most of the countries in the world. This is evidenced by the facts that in UN, where China has gotten supports in major issues, including Hong Kong and Xinjiang. Also look at China's strategic initiatives, such as Belt and Road Initiative - its summit was attended easily by most state and government heads outside UN assembly, in the words of the well-known US political scientist Ian Bremmer - and AIIB. Again, diplomacy has played a role.

Thirdly, look at what China is against now. A few hundreds years of western dominance and their vast media and influence and intelligence networks. The west feel increasingly threatened by the rise of China and have felt the need to collaborate in many fronts to make China a "bad guy" in the world (in the words of a CNN correspondent recently). It's amazing that the NGO-media-policy industrial complex can make a non-issue into a genocide involving one million err I'm sorry three millions Uighurs going through reeducation camp aka internment aka concentration camp plus forced labor plus sexual slaves. They have been quite successful judging from how brainwashed the western population and politicians on this. What kind of diplomacy would China have to deploy against such an odd? I would say they're doing not too bad giving the odds.

There is no doubt Chinese diplomacy needs improvement; we can always find incidents where they can play better diplomacy - I personally do. Especially now when China's adversaries are doing their best to disrupt and discredit China ("extreme competition"), China needs to bring their A-game to diplomacy. I hope they learn and improve, better quickly.

I would give you, though, that modern diplomacy is more a western game.