Chinese Economics Thread

Red Moon

Junior Member
Realistically, we are only looking at a 5-10% drop in US GDP this year, as per the IMF and other estimates.

Appreciating the Yuan actually means Chinese consumers buying more foreign-made products rather than Chinese-made products.
What needs to happen is the disposable incomes of Chinese consumers needs to increase.
Higher wages AND lower property costs for lower-income earners would be ideal.
You are quite the believer in economic projections, I've noticed. Yes, the IMF "predicts" the Chinese economy will grow by 1% this year, and 8% next year, while the American economy will shrink by 8% in 2020. Notice that in April they said the American economy would shrink by 5.9%, so they kind of cheat a bit.

The IMF's projections habitually low-ball Chinese growth, while the picture drawn for the US is usually more optimistic than warranted, because that's what the doctor ordered, after all. The IMF then updates the predictions frequently, and of course a more short term forecast, on average, will be more accurate.

But more to the point, under current conditions, how can we trust any sort of "projection"? At best, they describe current economic trends. No one can predict the course of the current pandemic, especially in the US. Pandemic "projections" themselves simply describe current trends with the disease, and often make unwarranted assumptions about people wearing masks, etc. No one predicted the explosion of the BLM movement, and no one even predicted the current American recession, which began before the pandemic hit, essentially under relatively normal economic circumstances.

Since the situation in China is much more stable, "projections" may be closer, perhaps off only by a couple of percentage points. For the US, all bets are off. The problem is that in any situation involving human society, you will have many separate developments which affect each other, and yet are not totally dependent on each other, and this makes matters unpredictable even in normal times. Now consider how the new spike in cases will affect the American economy. Consider also how the situation of electoral contest will affect the pandemic because yes, the effort to open up was at least partially due to electoral concerns. Many say the social explosions around George Floyd, etc have something to do with the current economic situation, which means many black people have been layed off, etc. Surely, further economic deterioration will affect both the social movements in the US, as well as the political situation, and yes, the pandemic. And how about the geopolitical conditions? The reactions of various countries to COVID-19 on American bases, as in Japan? After all, American choices regarding the pandemic have been heavily colored by the way they see the geopolitical situation, and the need to "look strong" and even risk the lives of its soldiers.

I have to insist: economic or social projections under normal conditions are a shaky proposition. Today, they're a joke.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Not necessarily.

Remember that there is seasonality to the different quarters.

For example, US retailers make most of their annual profits (and presumably sales) in the month of December.
Yes, what I said was in general but do we know which quarters in America's economy are bigger to its total? Unless the disparity between quarters is glaringly different than 25% across (like 40% or 15% of the year in a quarter), the calculations will not be affected much. Differences like 23% or 27% won't have a big impact on what I calculated.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Yes, what I said was in general but do we know which quarters in America's economy are bigger to its total? Unless the disparity between quarters is glaringly different than 25% across (like 40% or 15% of the year in a quarter), the calculations will not be affected much. Differences like 23% or 27% won't have a big impact on what I calculated.


Saddest part is despite $6 trillion in QE GDP still goes down.

Imagine GDP without the QE
 

Hadoren

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm pretty sure the American economy will drop by more than 10% this year. Mathematically it's not hard.

( -5% + -35% + Quarter#3 + Quarter#4 ) / 4 = -10%

Third Quarter GDP Optimistic Scenario
Third Quarter: 0%
Fourth Quarter: 0%

=> -10% annual GDP

Third Quarter GDP Decline Scenario
Third Quarter: -5%
Fourth Quarter: +5%

=> -10% annual GDP

My Guess
Third Quarter: -5%
Fourth Quarter: -5%

=> -12.5% annual GDP

I would be highly surprised to see third quarter GPD positive. July almost certainly has negative growth. Coronavirus could start declining in August. Or, considering that America is doing nothing to stop it, it could more likely plateau.

Fourth quarter GPD could be positive. It depends on whether or not there will be a second wave as the weather cools off. I would expect a second wave. That means negative fourth quarter GDP.
 

emblem21

Major
Registered Member
I
dont care, stonks ONLY GO UP! Thats the ONLY ECONOMY THAT MATTERS!
yeah, I wonder if it will matter when 28million (minimum number) unemployed are evicted into the street with no food or daily necessities when the government stimulus ends this month. Even if it does continue, the unofficial number of people not receiving the stimulus is also extremely high. Sooner or later, if the government does not fix this situation quickly, the stock market performance will be quickly lose relevance. Since there are so many red flags forming in the USA and none of them are being addressed, the next civil unrest will dwarf the current one to do with George Floyd by an order of magnitude
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Stocks go up cuz:

-Low rates = People and institutions moving savings and bonds to higher risk investments such as stocks.
-So much liquidity around and people have nowhere to put it.

@MrCrazyBoyRavi China Q2 GDP comes out today at 10PM Eastern

1594851130067.png
 
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