Chinese Aviation Industry

sndef888 said:

The hope for the entire chinese turboprop industry (MA700, Y-9 etc) is the AEP500

I've heard conflicting claims some saying it'll be produced soon and some saying by 2028

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OppositeDay said:

AEP500 is going to be a commerical engine. Civil certification takes time. It took A400M's engine 6 years to go from first bench run to civil certification. Yes Europrop messed up with FADEC, but China is less experienced than Europe. 6 years from bench run to certification should be considered smooth for AEP500.

AEP500 just had it's first prototype built early this year. I have yet to see any news on a bench run. Maybe it already happened, maybe not. But any expectation of imminent serial production is nonsense. 2028 is more like it.

Anyone knows if Chinese fire fighters can still use military-only equipments now they're no longer part of the PAP? Do they have to use civil certified helicopters, for example? AG600 will not get civil certification with WJ6.

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in 2018, AECC accelerate the program, finished design in 2019 and first AEP-500 prototype rolled off from assembly line in 2020. small scale trial production has completed in 2021 and 3 units have produced. so AECC officially present prototype in Zhuhai air show last year.

this is not the mock up. its original prototype in air show last October.



more pictures during assembly.



now back to your original question. will it deliver in 2028 ? in 2018 general perception about final delivery indeed was 2028 but embargo from Canada in 2020 have changed entire plan. engine will be certified way sooner than 2028. do you know that, there is also military version of AEP-500 for KJ-600/KJ-500/Y-9 and maybe for Yuan 30 too. PLAAF will gradually replace WJ-6C as engine is too old, cruise speed and fuel consumption are really bad.

MA-700 flew first time in 2022. some local rumors are, plane flew with AEP-500 for flying test. but we don't have any authentic news regarding this. so cannot confirm.

First batch in large-scale production of bio-jet fuel in China expected to serve aviation industry soon

By Global Times Published: Sep 20, 2022 01:22 AM



The assembly line of A320 series aircraft at the Airbus (China) Tianjin plant Photo: huanqiu.com

Sinopec Zhenhai Refinery has officially obtained a bio-jet fuel airworthiness certificate issued by the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC), the Global Times learned on Monday.

The first batch of bio-jet fuel is scheduled to be shipped to the Airbus (China) Tianjin plant this month.

China's first bio-jet fuel plant has an annual designed processing capacity of 100,000 tons. Taking waste catering oil as the raw material, the first batch of biological jet fuel has realized production of more than 600 tons. If the plant runs at full capacity, it can basically digest the "waste oil" recovered from a city with a population of 10 million in one year, the company said.

Compared with traditional petroleum-based aviation kerosene, bio-jet fuel can reduce carbon dioxide emissions by up to 50 percent in the entire life cycle.

This year, the CAAC issued the 14th Five-Year Plan for green development. As the first green development plan in the history of civil aviation in China, it laid down the goals and requirements as well as the main tasks for the green development of civil aviation during the 14th Five-Year Plan period. With a wide variety of themes ranging from "energy conservation and emissions reduction" to "green development," the plan will offer effective guidance for the green, low-carbon and sustainable development of the civil aviation industry in China.

Sinopec said it has been committed to promoting the development of China's bio-jet fuel industry. In 2009, Sinopec developed bio-jet fuel production technology with independent intellectual property rights, and it produced qualified bio-jet fuel for the first time in December 2011. The test flight was successful at Shanghai airport in April 2013.

In 2014, it obtained China's first bio-jet fuel airworthiness certificate. In 2015, a commercial flight from Shanghai to Beijing was carried out on a domestic route using bio-jet fuel. In 2017, a transoceanic flight from Beijing to Chicago was carried out, making China the first country in Asia and the fourth country in the world to conduct independent research and development of bio-jet fuel technology.

Reuters reported in June that Sinopec Zhenhai produced its first aviation fuel from used cooking oil at an industrial-scale facility in East China.

sunnymaxi said:

in 2018, AECC accelerate the program, finished design in 2019 and first AEP-500 prototype rolled off from assembly line in 2020. small scale trial production has completed in 2021 and 3 units have produced. so AECC officially present prototype in Zhuhai air show last year.

this is not the mock up. its original prototype in air show last October.

View attachment 97833

more pictures during assembly.

View attachment 97835View attachment 97834

now back to your original question. will it deliver in 2028 ? in 2018 general perception about final delivery indeed was 2028 but embargo from Canada in 2020 have changed entire plan. engine will be certified way sooner than 2028. do you know that, there is also military version of AEP-500 for KJ-600/KJ-500/Y-9 and maybe for Yuan 30 too. PLAAF will gradually replace WJ-6C as engine is too old, cruise speed and fuel consumption are really bad.

MA-700 flew first time in 2022. some local rumors are, plane flew with AEP-500 for flying test. but we don't have any authentic news regarding this. so cannot confirm.
View attachment 97837

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Yeah I was wrong about the time of the first prototype, it was in 2020, not 2022. However, as late as in late 2021, the plan was still to complete prototype development by 2025 and civil certification by 2028.

"AEP500民用涡桨发动机项目（计划2020年完成首台验证机试制和试验，2025年完成验证机研制，2028年适航取证）"

AES100's first prototype was built in 2018 and civil certification is expected in 2024. AEP500 is a much more powerful engine. People can't just magically cut the development/certification time by a few years because they want the engine early.

OppositeDay said:

Yeah I was wrong about the time of the first prototype, it was in 2020, not 2022. However, as late as in late 2021, the plan was still to complete prototype development by 2025 and civil certification by 2028.

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"AEP500民用涡桨发动机项目（计划2020年完成首台验证机试制和试验，2025年完成验证机研制，2028年适航取证）"

AES100's first prototype was built in 2018 and civil certification is expected in 2024. AEP500 is a much more powerful engine. People can't just magically cut the development/certification time by a few years because they want the engine early.

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seems like you don't check news/updates regularly on forum or even on Chinese media.

on July 1st, Aero Engine Corporation of China, signed the first order for the 1000kw class commercial turboshaft engine "AES100" that was originally developed by the company. The AES100 will be used to power the large tilt rotor UAV "rainbow".

AES-100 certification is imminent. most probably by the end of this year or in first quarter of 2023, after that deliveries will start to CAAA for rotor UAV.

Boeing's view of global airliner market to 2041.


Click on the icons to see regional/international comparisons. Anyway Boeing thinks China will continue to grow GDP at an average 4.3% (more than double North America's and 3 x Europe's) and take delivery of 8,485 airliners over the period (a bit less than NorthAm).

Airbus view for comparison:

sunnymaxi said:

seems like you don't check news/updates regularly on forum or even on Chinese media.

on July 1st, Aero Engine Corporation of China, signed the first order for the 1000kw class commercial turboshaft engine "AES100" that was originally developed by the company. The AES100 will be used to power the large tilt rotor UAV "rainbow".

AES-100 certification is imminent. most probably by the end of this year or in first quarter of 2023, after that deliveries will start to CAAA for rotor UAV.

View attachment 97992

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I'm well aware of the CH contract, but it provides no evidence for imminent AES-100 certification. It's perfectly normal for such contracts to be signed well before certification.

Also there is no connection between AES-100 civil certification and delivery to CASC. The original CASC tiltrotor CH-10 is powered by a piston engine and has a maximum liftoff weight of 350kg. An AES-100 powered tiltrotor should have a maximum liftoff weight of no less than 2 tons. It's going to be a new aircraft. You don't need civil certification to deliver engines for flight testing a new aircraft. Also a tiltrotor of this size is more likely to be used by the military, which doesn't require civil certification.

Cutting civil certification time by almost half is an extraordinary claim, and require some serious evidence to support.

OppositeDay said:

I'm well aware of the CH contract, but it provides no evidence for imminent AES-100 certification. It's perfectly normal for such contracts to be signed well before certification.

Also there is no connection between AES-100 civil certification and delivery to CASC. The original CASC tiltrotor CH-10 is powered by a piston engine and has a maximum liftoff weight of 350kg. An AES-100 powered tiltrotor should have a maximum liftoff weight of no less than 2 tons. It's going to be a new aircraft. You don't need civil certification to deliver engines for flight testing a new aircraft. Also a tiltrotor of this size is more likely to be used by the military, which doesn't require civil certification.

Cutting civil certification time by almost half is an extraordinary claim, and require some serious evidence to support.

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my post is about military version of AES-100. nothing to do with civil certificate.

its not an aircraft. it is a UAV and completely different project .

so by your logic, they have signed agreement 2 years before certification and even announced officially in public as well. this is not how Chinese aerospace firms works.

we are talking about 1000KW turboshaft engine. just a small engine. and don't forget first prototype has built in 2018.

only time will tell. who is right and who is wrong.

The Zhanhong (战鸿) emergency command aircraft was unveiled at the 2022 World Manufacturing Conference. The aircraft is based on the DA42 twin-engine four-seater platform and is intended for rapid disaster response. Using its onboard observation and communication systems, it can achieve quick situational assessment and streamline emergency response.

by78 said:

The Zhanhong (战鸿) emergency command aircraft was unveiled at the 2022 World Manufacturing Conference. The aircraft is based on the DA42 twin-engine four-seater platform and is intended for rapid disaster response. Using its onboard observation and communication systems, it can achieve quick situational assessment and streamline emergency response.

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This would make a nice COIN light ISR/strike aircraft as well, if the PLA ever found itself needing such an aircraft (probably not, but hey it's there)

Another win for Airbus: