China's Space Program News Thread

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longmarch

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Gloire_bb said:
China has ratified all relevant space treaties(other than the Moon agreement, but no actual space powers did that anyway), and is an active member of all UN GA committees (incl. 4th committee and certainly Committee on Peaceful Uses of the Outer Space). China is active at promulgating prospective future space legislation and promoting rule of law in Outer Space (see, for example, joint PAROS initiative from Russia and China).
As you can see, China is certainly an active member of "International Space community". Unless you are of opinion that Washinton, DC is a world capital...

Ratification means inclusion of corresponding treaties into the Chinese legal system by the National People's Congress. (PRC constitution, art. 67; PRC Law on procedure for concluding treaties, art.7 & art.11)
As far as I know, that's quite an authority in China.

Next, nowadays China is becoming fairly active in opposing to US with its "like-minded partners" in their attempts to legislate something in their own small circle. Countering these attempts includes opinion of the international community. Much(if not most) of this very community lives within 41 degrees latitude, and thus is theoretically affected. Real risks may not be that important here(let's face it, they're extremely low). Attitude, however, is: you either care about other countries, or you do not.
Thus, as you can see reputation and messaging is important.

If Liability convention will be triggered on may, 8th - believe me, suit will happen immediately, and it is going to be quite an embarrassing experience. See Soviet debacle with Cosmos 954...which was actually settled through diplomatic(not legal) means, but still was a fairly significant blow to the international reputation of Soviet space program.

Thus, I reinstate that I am of opinion that it's an unfortunate event, especially for a civilian space station. It is a very obvious point of concern(and attack for US&aligned countries), one which hopefully will be avoided in the future.
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As I said, you are muddying the water.
We are talking about whether having a controlled reentry baked in the design is an obligation for China to fulfill or not, be it standard, law, or convention.
If you say yes, show me the exact article, and when China sigh up for it. But you didn't.
Maybe there is a hypothetical "international community" within a small circle, who made some rules which China is not a part of. If so, then China has no obligation to abide by those rules. Is that not clear? When I say "China doesn't care", yes I mean it. Why would China care for some rules that it's not part of.
Now, if CZ-5B hit somewhere and cause damage, should China pay for that? Sure, why not. But let's be honest, is this what we are talking about here? It is not.
You guys are saying, it's unacceptable for CZ-5B without controlled reentry baked into it's design.
Unacceptable by who? If it's just your opinion, stop using words like "unacceptable" and talking like you are the boss of China's space program.

And you went one step further, claiming it's an attack for US and aligned countries.

Can you be more ridiculous than that?
 
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longmarch

Junior Member
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taxiya said:
and @longmarch

To both of you, let's not be carried away by the "international law" thing from the original subject.

The original subject was that somebody here put more blame/responsibility on Chinese space program than the western counterparts making the debris issue somehow unique to China, or making it something that China MUST address more urgent than others.

The counter argument made by many members are that China's responsibility is NO more than the west, neither less of course if China signed up to a treaty.

So if I may rephrase the post by @longmarch, the more accurate way to say is "China doesn't care any more or less than the west", and shouldn't. And I fully believe that in the heat of debate with an obvious troll, it is unavoidable to make statement that may lead to misinterpretation.

To @Gloire_bb, I understand that your reply about the law was meant for the effect like my rephrasing above.

I believe both of you have good intentions, so I ask you to drop the matter and move on.
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I just replied. Whatever he listed, is not the same topic.
And of course, when I say "International community", it's sarcasm with quotes. It's something they made up when it's convenient for them.
 
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davidau

Senior Member
Registered Member
longmarch said:
As I said, you are muddying the water.
We are talking about whether having a controlled reentry baked in the design is an obligation for China to fulfill or not, be it standard, law, or convention.
If you say yes, show me the exact article, and when China sigh up for it. But you didn't.
Maybe there is a hypothetical "international community" within a small circle, who made some rules which China is not a part of. If so, then China has no obligation to abide by those rules. Is that not clear? When I say "China doesn't care", yes I mean it. Why would China care for some rules that it's not part of.
Now, if CZ-5B hit somewhere and cause damage, should China pay for that? Sure, why not. But let's be honest, is this what we are talking about here? It is not.
You guys are saying, it's unacceptable for CZ-5B without controlled reentry baked into it's design.
Unacceptable by who? If it's just your opinion, stop using words like "unacceptable" and talking like you are the boss of China's space program.

And you went one step further, claiming it's an attack for US and aligned countries.

Can you be more ridiculous than that?
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Whatever China achieves, there are always Western pro US gangs who voiced fake news with their foul mouth against China. In fact the West and US are purple with envy how China controlled the Covid -19 pandemic , scientific achievements, the landing on Mars [about mid May], roving on the darkside of the moon, world's longest 160, 000Km highway, fast trains, shipbuilding and so on... China is to have its own complete space station by 2022 and the ISS will be falling out of the sky...beware of the debris folks!
 
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longmarch

Junior Member
Registered Member
davidau said:
Whatever China achieves, there are always Western pro US gangs who voiced fake news with their foul mouth against China. In fact the West and US are purple with envy how China controlled the Covid -19 pandemic , scientific achievements, the landing on Mars [about mid May], roving on the darkside of the moon, world's longest 160, 000Km highway, fast trains, shipbuilding and so on... China is to have its own complete space station by 2022 and the ISS will be falling out of the sky...beware of the debris folks!
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We have people here more assertive and using stronger words than the white house does. I mean who do they think they are
It's very true that every time China makes a major progress, some mental gymnasts would come out and make it look like a giant failure. That's what I call "mental masterbation". Doing that in their own circle is one thing. If they do it in public, we just need to call that out.
And let's see them coming out again next year
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
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longmarch said:
We have people here more assertive and using stronger words than the white house does. I mean who do they think they are
It's very true that every time China makes a major progress, some mental gymnasts would come out and make it look like a giant failure. That's what I call "mental masterbation". Doing that in their own circle is one thing. If they do it in public, we just need to call that out.
And let's see them coming out again next year
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The worst part is that the title makes it sound like the LAUNCH itself and LM-5B was a failure. It is a form of misinformation, especially to layperson.
 
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