China's Space Program News Thread


Temstar

Junior Member
Registered Member
I saw a documentary on Long March rocket development that talked about this. There was a period in the late 80s where the economic reform was under way and while previously the government paid for all the costs of aerospace program in China, they were told instead to "fend for themselves" in the international launch market. Funding was so low that rocket factories had to build refrigerators just to survive. Naturally pay was also really bad and lots of people left the industry and few new blood wanted to join, so only the really dedicated remained.

Long March rockets went onto the international launch market in October 1985, then something surreal happened in 1986. In one single year the Challenger Disaster first happened in January, then a Titan III blew up in April 8 seconds after launch, then a Atlas III blew up in May followed shortly by an Ariane 2 in the same month.

With everyone's launch vehicles all grounded at the same time there was suddenly a vacuum in the satellite launch business and China was all too happy to pick up the slack.

China started picking up business with Long March 3 but they very quickly realised that satellite will shortly outgrow the puny 1.5 ton to GSO that Long March 3 offered. So someone came up with Long March 2E, the first Long March with boosters.

But the government at the time said they won't foot the R&D cost until a customer could be found for Long March 2E, since there's no domestic need yet for a launch vehicle in this class. So MAI did a crazy thing were they went looking for customer with only the rough blue prints in their hand and a promise that they would be on time with the rocket. Fortunately on this occasion Pakistan and Australia came through for China. The negotiation went for so long though that after the handshake there was only 18 month left before the launch deadline, but MAI made it and first Long March 2E was launched before the deadline successfully with Badr-A and an Optus B mass simulator. After this funding gradually started to loosen up and the space program recovered overtime.

So the lack of middle aged people in China's space program actually has a lot to do with this dry period.
 
Last edited:

hashtagpls

Junior Member
Registered Member
I saw a documentary on Long March rocket development that talked about this. There was a period in the late 80s where the economic reform was under way and while previously the government paid for all the costs of aerospace program in China, they were told instead to "fend for themselves" in the international launch market. Funding was so low that rocket factories had to build refrigerators just to survive. Naturally pay was also really bad and lots of people left the industry and few new blood wanted to join, so only the really dedicated remained.

Long March rockets went onto the international launch market in October 1985, then something surreal happened in 1986. In one single year the Challenger Disaster first happened in January, then a Titan III blew up in April 8 seconds after launch, then a Atlas III blew up in May followed shortly by an Ariane 2 in the same month.

With everyone's launch vehicles all grounded at the same time there was suddenly a vacuum in the satellite launch business and China was all too happy to pick up the slack.

China started picking up business with Long March 3 but they very quickly realised that satellite will shortly outgrow the puny 1.5 ton to LEO that Long March 3 offered. So someone came up with Long March 2E, the first Long March with boosters.

But the government at the time said they won't foot the R&D cost until a customer could be found for Long March 2E, since there's no domestic need yet for a launch vehicle in this class. So MAI did a crazy thing were they went looking for customer with only the rough blue prints in their hand and a promise that they would be on time with the rocket. Fortunately on this occasion Pakistan and Australia came through for China. The negotiation went for so long though that after the handshake there was only 18 month left before the launch deadline, but MAI made it and first Long March 2E was launched before the deadline successfully with Badr-A and an Optus B mass simulator. After this funding gradually started to loosen up and the space program recovered overtime.

So the lack of middle aged people in China's space program actually has a lot to do with this dry period.
i demand a film made by WuJing based on this.
 

eprash

New Member
Registered Member
I saw a documentary on Long March rocket development that talked about this. There was a period in the late 80s where the economic reform was under way and while previously the government paid for all the costs of aerospace program in China, they were told instead to "fend for themselves" in the international launch market. Funding was so low that rocket factories had to build refrigerators just to survive. Naturally pay was also really bad and lots of people left the industry and few new blood wanted to join, so only the really dedicated remained.

Long March rockets went onto the international launch market in October 1985, then something surreal happened in 1986. In one single year the Challenger Disaster first happened in January, then a Titan III blew up in April 8 seconds after launch, then a Atlas III blew up in May followed shortly by an Ariane 2 in the same month.

With everyone's launch vehicles all grounded at the same time there was suddenly a vacuum in the satellite launch business and China was all too happy to pick up the slack.

China started picking up business with Long March 3 but they very quickly realised that satellite will shortly outgrow the puny 1.5 ton to GSO that Long March 3 offered. So someone came up with Long March 2E, the first Long March with boosters.

But the government at the time said they won't foot the R&D cost until a customer could be found for Long March 2E, since there's no domestic need yet for a launch vehicle in this class. So MAI did a crazy thing were they went looking for customer with only the rough blue prints in their hand and a promise that they would be on time with the rocket. Fortunately on this occasion Pakistan and Australia came through for China. The negotiation went for so long though that after the handshake there was only 18 month left before the launch deadline, but MAI made it and first Long March 2E was launched before the deadline successfully with Badr-A and an Optus B mass simulator. After this funding gradually started to loosen up and the space program recovered overtime.

So the lack of middle aged people in China's space program actually has a lot to do with this dry period.
Seriously? Respect to those scientists who didn't jump ship,I once read a story that happened right after the Soviet dissolution, When some commanding officers visited a Topol mobile ICBM unit as part of their routine check nobody was present near the TEL the officers were pissed and ready to court martial but when the culprits arrived they were stunned by their reason, apparently things were so chaotic that the unit haven't been getting their ration for weeks instead of quitting the men decided to scavange in the forest nearby for sustenance
 

Temstar

Junior Member
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Development of a new staged combustion hydrolox engine intended for super heavy lift launch vehicle (one would guess this is YF-220 for Long March 9) is progressing well. This engine is a major step above the current YF-77 (employing gas generator cycle) used for Long March 5 core.

Currently preburner hot-fire test, preburner-hydrogen turbopump integration test, preburner-oxygen turbopump integration test have all been successfully completed.
 

Josh Luo

Senior Member
Registered Member
Don’t unless you want to work 997 schedules and surprisingly low pay. Most of them also don’t even get any spot in the limelight either.
What's the typical monthly salary for the mid-level professionals (like this young commander) at CASC or CASIC? Also, keep in mind that they have bonuses during the September Moon Festival and Chinese New Year, as well as universal healthcare, housing, and education for children provided specifically to government employees.
 

taxiya

Colonel
Registered Member
I saw a documentary on Long March rocket development that talked about this. There was a period in the late 80s where the economic reform was under way and while previously the government paid for all the costs of aerospace program in China, they were told instead to "fend for themselves" in the international launch market. Funding was so low that rocket factories had to build refrigerators just to survive. Naturally pay was also really bad and lots of people left the industry and few new blood wanted to join, so only the really dedicated remained.

Long March rockets went onto the international launch market in October 1985, then something surreal happened in 1986. In one single year the Challenger Disaster first happened in January, then a Titan III blew up in April 8 seconds after launch, then a Atlas III blew up in May followed shortly by an Ariane 2 in the same month.

With everyone's launch vehicles all grounded at the same time there was suddenly a vacuum in the satellite launch business and China was all too happy to pick up the slack.

China started picking up business with Long March 3 but they very quickly realised that satellite will shortly outgrow the puny 1.5 ton to GSO that Long March 3 offered. So someone came up with Long March 2E, the first Long March with boosters.

But the government at the time said they won't foot the R&D cost until a customer could be found for Long March 2E, since there's no domestic need yet for a launch vehicle in this class. So MAI did a crazy thing were they went looking for customer with only the rough blue prints in their hand and a promise that they would be on time with the rocket. Fortunately on this occasion Pakistan and Australia came through for China. The negotiation went for so long though that after the handshake there was only 18 month left before the launch deadline, but MAI made it and first Long March 2E was launched before the deadline successfully with Badr-A and an Optus B mass simulator. After this funding gradually started to loosen up and the space program recovered overtime.

So the lack of middle aged people in China's space program actually has a lot to do with this dry period.
That is not limited to the space industry but military industry too. If there is a lack of "middle aged people" in space program, it would be the same in military too. What China did was to keep key people (now middle aged) well fed, and reduce the positions of non-essentials (let them leave or work on civilian works).

I worked as an intern in 5th academy at that time, my advisers put me and others to work on a money making civilian project serving the banks and their post-graduates worked with some classified work involving the ex-soviets. The advisers were once criticized by the leadership for spending too much time on the civilian project which partially pays their salaries as bonus.
 

taxiya

Colonel
Registered Member
Seriously? Respect to those scientists who didn't jump ship,I once read a story that happened right after the Soviet dissolution, When some commanding officers visited a Topol mobile ICBM unit as part of their routine check nobody was present near the TEL the officers were pissed and ready to court martial but when the culprits arrived they were stunned by their reason, apparently things were so chaotic that the unit haven't been getting their ration for weeks instead of quitting the men decided to scavange in the forest nearby for sustenance
It is true. But jumping the ship is not a simple decision around (visible) money.
  1. If you are the key people and you are really a technical person, you won't jump because you have secured housing which eventually will be given to you as private property which worth a lot (millions) even today, plus many other benefits. The one who jumped in the early time will have to earn that amount money in uncertain business.
  2. If you are really a business oriented person and not really deep into technology, you would be more interested to have the chance to be a millionaire or billionaire. Then you will jump ship regardless because you are never a person of science. I have one of my classmate who was very smart and had good scores in school, but he never did technical work using learnt knowledge for a single day after graduation. There were lots of such seemingly good engineers in the military and space industry back then because before the 1990s, you enter the industry not because you are interested in it but because you graduated from a school that was in the industry.
  3. If you are neither a highly skilled person, nor an ambitious person, then you are encouraged to find new works. Although if there were enough space/military program you could be doing something useful, but without you the industry won't suffer much either. It is these people who suffered the most in a tough time.
My respect goes to the 1st and 3rd.
 

taxiya

Colonel
Registered Member
Don’t unless you want to work 997 schedules and surprisingly low pay. Most of them also don’t even get any spot in the limelight either.
Those people (in the photo) in the space industry do not work 997. It is only some private business who demand 997 against the labor law. SOE employees are required to work overtime when needed, but are compensated not only by cash, but also by shifted off-days. Non-contracted workers in SOE may also suffer from not being properly compensated overtime which breaches the law but never 997.
 

Top