China's historical grand strategy: defensive or offensive?


jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
The State of Qin used to be considered to be barbarians by the other states... until they up and went and conquered the whole country and became the First Emperor.

Not by all other states, just the central plain. In fact, to the people of central plain, Chu, Qin, Wu, Yue, etc were all considered barbarians or semi-barbarian for a time.
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
For anyone wanting to learn real Chinese history should go to CGTN documentary, they are running 100 part History of China good researcher from Chinese academy of science and lecturer at Chinese university. Available from Roku and maybe Amazon firestick. Today episode is Northern Wei/ Western and eastern Wei/ Northern Qi/Northern Zhou Precursor to Sui Dynasty when Chine again reunited after the last Jin dynasty 200 years has passed since. NOw here the study of how nomad people Xianbei was integrated into the Chinese nation. Their original capital is in Datong but latter they move to Luoyang
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Sinicization
As the Northern Wei state grew, the emperors' desire for
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
institutions and advisors grew.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(381-450), an advisor at the courts in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
played a great part in this process.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
He introduced Han Chinese administrative methods and penal codes in the Northern Wei state, as well as creating a
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that lasted until 450. The attraction of Han Chinese products, the royal court's taste for luxury, the prestige of Chinese culture at the time, and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
were all factors in the growing Chinese influence in the Northern Wei state. Chinese influence accelerated during the capital's move to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in 494 and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
continued this by establishing a policy of systematic
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that was continued by his successors. Xianbei traditions were largely abandoned. The royal family took the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
a step further by changing their family name to Yuan. Marriages to Chinese families were encouraged. With this,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
temples started appearing everywhere, displacing Taoism as the state religion. The temples were often created to appear extremely lavish and extravagant on the outside of the temples.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Also from 460 onwards the emperors started erecting huge statues of the Buddha carved near their capital Pingcheng which declared the emperors as the representatives of the Buddha and the legitimate rulers of China.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The Northern Wei started to arrange for Han Chinese elites to marry daughters of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
royal family in the 480s.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
More than fifty percent of Tuoba Xianbei princesses of the Northern Wei were married to southern Han Chinese men from the imperial families and aristocrats from southern China of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
who defected and moved north to join the Northern Wei.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Some Han Chinese exiled royalty fled from southern China and defected to the Xianbei. Several daughters of the Xianbei
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
were married to Han Chinese elites, the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
royal Liu Hui 劉輝), married Princess Lanling (蘭陵公主) of the Northern Wei,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Princess Huayang (華陽公主) to Sima Fei (司馬朏), a descendant of
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
royalty,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
's sister the Shouyang Princess was wedded to the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
ruler
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
's son Xiao Zong
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


When the Eastern Jin dynasty ended Northern Wei received the Han Chinese Jin prince Sima Chuzhi (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
) as a refugee. A Northern Wei Princess married Sima Chuzhi, giving birth to Sima Jinlong (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
).
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Xiongnu King
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
's daughter married Sima Jinlong.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The Northern Wei's Eight Noble
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
surnames (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
) were the Buliugu (步六孤), Helai (賀賴),
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
), Helou (賀樓), Huniu (忽忸), Qiumu (丘穆), Gexi (紇奚), and Yuchi (
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
). They adopted Chinese last names.

Kongzi was honoured in sacrifices as was Earth and Heaven by the northern dynasties of non-Han origin.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Kongzi was honored by the Murong Wei Former Yan Xianbei leader.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Kongzi was honored by the Di ruler
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Kongzi was honored in sacrifices by the Northern Wei Xianbei dynasty. Kongzi was honored by Yuoba Si, the Mingyuan emperor.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Han dynasty Emperors, Shang dynasty ruler Bigan, Emperor Yao and Emperor Shun were honored by Yuoba Si, the Mingyuan Emperor. Kongzi was honored extensively by Tuoba Hong, the Xiaowen Emperor.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



A fief of 100 households and the rank of (崇聖侯)
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
was bestowed upon a Confucius descendant,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
's lineage had 2 of its scions and Confucius's lineage had 4 of its scions who had ranks bestowed on them in Shandong in 495 and a fief of ten households and rank of (崇聖大夫) Grandee who venerates the sage was bestowed on Kong Sheng (孔乘) who was Confucius's scion in the 28th generation in 472 by Emperor Xiaowen of Northern Wei.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


An anti Buddhist plan was concocted by the Celestial Masters under
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
along with
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
under the Taiwu Emperor.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
The Celestial Masters of the north urged the persecution of Buddhists under the Taiwu Emperor in the Northern Wei, attacking Buddhism and the Buddha as wicked and as anti-stability and anti-family.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Anti Buddhism was the position of Kou Qianzhi.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
There was no ban on the Celestial Masters despite the nonfullfilment of Cui Hao and Kou Qianzhi's agenda in their anti-Buddhist campaign.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Cui Zhen's wife Han Farong was buried in a Datong located grave.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
Anyone interested in the history of Han conquest of southern China Here is a good video
New Kings and Generals animated historical documentary on the history of China and East Asia will focus on the Nanman, also known as Hundred Yue and Baiyue, who were the indigenous peoples of Southern China and Northern Vietnam. This video will cover their society, economics, warfare and much more, focusing on the conflicts between them and Han Chinese during the Han dynasty and the Three Kingdoms period.

It is interesting that Southern Chinese share 80% of Y haplo group inherited from the male line with Northern Chinese. But only 25% of mitochondria gene inherited from the female line. And it is true the substrata language of Hokkien and Cantonese contain traces of indigenous language.

 
Last edited:

Tam

Colonel
Registered Member
Anyone interested in the history of Han conquest of southern China Here is a good video
New Kings and Generals animated historical documentary on the history of China and East Asia will focus on the Nanman, also known as Hundred Yue and Baiyue, who were the indigenous peoples of Southern China and Northern Vietnam. This video will cover their society, economics, warfare and much more, focusing on the conflicts between them and Han Chinese during the Han dynasty and the Three Kingdoms period.

It is interesting that Southern Chinese share 80% of Y haplo group inherited from the male line with Northern Chinese. But only 25% of mitochondria gene inherited from the female line. And it is true the substrata language of Hokkien and Cantonese contain traces of indigenous language.



This is interesting when you consider genetic connections to early Koreans and the Yayoi people that immigrated to the Japanese archipelago. Most modern Japanese are descended from Yayoi which may have originated at the Yangtze river, probably the Wu area. One trait of these peoples are rice paddy cultivation on mountains and hills, which you also find in Taiwan and the northern Philippines.
 

Hendrik_2000

Brigadier
This is interesting when you consider genetic connections to early Koreans and the Yayoi people that immigrated to the Japanese archipelago. Most modern Japanese are descended from Yayoi which may have originated at the Yangtze river, probably the Wu area. One trait of these peoples are rice paddy cultivation on mountains and hills, which you also find in Taiwan and the northern Philippines.

Correct as well as tattoo on their body and the house style closely resemble Hemudu culture house built on the stilt. Also according to Wei qi the Wei king sent emissaries to queen Himiko and ask them where they come from and she said ancient Wu kingdom
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
1605332197059.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tam

jimmyjames30x30

Junior Member
Registered Member
This is interesting when you consider genetic connections to early Koreans and the Yayoi people that immigrated to the Japanese archipelago. Most modern Japanese are descended from Yayoi which may have originated at the Yangtze river, probably the Wu area. One trait of these peoples are rice paddy cultivation on mountains and hills, which you also find in Taiwan and the northern Philippines.

Well, you could say that East Asia is pretty much the story about how the Huaxia Chinese people beating the shit out of everyone else and scattered them throughout the places, and occasionally suffered small and trivial defeats.
 

nastya1

Junior Member
Registered Member

山高县 think tank
There is no surrender because it won't be accepted by the genocide folks.
he said north America genocide folks needed to held accountable just like the Nazi.
haha
 
Last edited:

supersnoop

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well, you could say that East Asia is pretty much the story about how the Huaxia Chinese people beating the shit out of everyone else and scattered them throughout the places, and occasionally suffered small and trivial defeats.

This brings up a point that I wonder if any other members have an opinion or more insight on.

It has always been my opinion that "Han Chinese" ethnicity was something created by westerners, daringly I would go as far as saying this theory only gained prominence in the last 100 years or so as a justification to weaken greater Chinese national cohesion.

First, the whole idea of ethnicity is very loose to begin with, usually we are talking about things like food, language, culture. If a eurocentric/western view can see German and Dutch as different ethnicities, then certainly you can start carving up "Han" into like probably at least a dozen groups at the very least.

An example is when you look at something like 'Manchurian' identity now. 200 years ago this was something very distinct. However, if you read the news today it seems like since westerners cannot reliably separate them, they just consider them 'Han'.

Further to this idea, I think basically the idea of China doesn't fit neatly into the traditional Eurocentric historical mould. Whereas in Europe, somehow many small "ethnic" groups were able to create their own kingdoms (to the point that there was no modern Italy or Germany until very recently), Chinese kingdoms were able to hold on to a larger swathes of geography. This can loosely translate into saying something like there are 2 kinds of Chinese identity, cultural identity, and the political/national identity which comes and goes with rulers.

Historically, and even today, "Chinese-ness" kind of rises and falls with foreign relations. Vietnam is a perfect example, when relations are good, Vietnamese and Chinese are like family, when they are bad, totally distinct, China has never had any influence on Vietnam. You can say the same with Thailand, Cambodia, etc.
 

solarz

Brigadier
This brings up a point that I wonder if any other members have an opinion or more insight on.

It has always been my opinion that "Han Chinese" ethnicity was something created by westerners, daringly I would go as far as saying this theory only gained prominence in the last 100 years or so as a justification to weaken greater Chinese national cohesion.

First, the whole idea of ethnicity is very loose to begin with, usually we are talking about things like food, language, culture. If a eurocentric/western view can see German and Dutch as different ethnicities, then certainly you can start carving up "Han" into like probably at least a dozen groups at the very least.

An example is when you look at something like 'Manchurian' identity now. 200 years ago this was something very distinct. However, if you read the news today it seems like since westerners cannot reliably separate them, they just consider them 'Han'.

Further to this idea, I think basically the idea of China doesn't fit neatly into the traditional Eurocentric historical mould. Whereas in Europe, somehow many small "ethnic" groups were able to create their own kingdoms (to the point that there was no modern Italy or Germany until very recently), Chinese kingdoms were able to hold on to a larger swathes of geography. This can loosely translate into saying something like there are 2 kinds of Chinese identity, cultural identity, and the political/national identity which comes and goes with rulers.

Historically, and even today, "Chinese-ness" kind of rises and falls with foreign relations. Vietnam is a perfect example, when relations are good, Vietnamese and Chinese are like family, when they are bad, totally distinct, China has never had any influence on Vietnam. You can say the same with Thailand, Cambodia, etc.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying.

The Han identity was definitely NOT created by Westerners. It is a firmly entrenched identity dating back to the Zhou dynasty (when it was called Huaxia instead of Han).

Now, over the millenia, the Huaxia/Han culture absorbed many other ethnic groups: Turks, Xianbei, Khitan, Manchu, etc.

The problem with Westerners is that they do not understand the difference between "Han" and "Chinese". That's why they say things like Yuan was a foreign dynasty, or that Liao was not Chinese.
 

LawLeadsToPeace

Junior Member
Registered Member
This brings up a point that I wonder if any other members have an opinion or more insight on.

It has always been my opinion that "Han Chinese" ethnicity was something created by westerners, daringly I would go as far as saying this theory only gained prominence in the last 100 years or so as a justification to weaken greater Chinese national cohesion.

First, the whole idea of ethnicity is very loose to begin with, usually we are talking about things like food, language, culture. If a eurocentric/western view can see German and Dutch as different ethnicities, then certainly you can start carving up "Han" into like probably at least a dozen groups at the very least.

An example is when you look at something like 'Manchurian' identity now. 200 years ago this was something very distinct. However, if you read the news today it seems like since westerners cannot reliably separate them, they just consider them 'Han'.

Further to this idea, I think basically the idea of China doesn't fit neatly into the traditional Eurocentric historical mould. Whereas in Europe, somehow many small "ethnic" groups were able to create their own kingdoms (to the point that there was no modern Italy or Germany until very recently), Chinese kingdoms were able to hold on to a larger swathes of geography. This can loosely translate into saying something like there are 2 kinds of Chinese identity, cultural identity, and the political/national identity which comes and goes with rulers.

Historically, and even today, "Chinese-ness" kind of rises and falls with foreign relations. Vietnam is a perfect example, when relations are good, Vietnamese and Chinese are like family, when they are bad, totally distinct, China has never had any influence on Vietnam. You can say the same with Thailand, Cambodia, etc.
The Han thing has always been used around a lot. The one we know today started from the revolutionaries during the end of the Qing dynasty and yes Sun Zhongshan was one of them. Initially they tried to turn it into a race thing to create a nation run by Han people only but that failed miserably due to the history of constant intermingling between various groups of people ever since the Chinese civilization was a thing. Then they switched to an ethnic group definition which technically speaking still doesnt hold. To be honest, from my point of view, anybody who accepts and practices at least one of the philosophies of Kongzi, Mengzi, and etc is Han.
 

Top