china/taiwan news

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Nobonita Barua

Senior Member
Registered Member
A takeover of the ROC was always going to happen in Asia; how could it happen elsewhere? If reuniting the country takes some bloodshed, then so be it.

On another note, wars aren't fought like they were before. It's not total ruin of occupied cities anymore. It's high-intensity and short, mostly military targets by precision strikes. China's got its targets that it needs to hit to incapacitate the enemy without killing thousands of civilians but if the US escalates beyond a certain point, mainly striking civilian targets in the mainland rather than swatting at some PLAAF fighters with whatever they can get past China's ASMBs, then China has warned that it will go to nuclear war trading cities with the US. Don't take "no first use" at face value.
Well if I were you, I would go to Russian solution.
Of course the takeover is going to happen in Asia. But that's between two parts of China.
If I were you, after this article, I would go completely mum, a week or two later I would "leak" my plan about compact & complete solution regarding US, with special focus on Guam, Hawaii, Texas.
They didn't publish this article because they are going to do it tomorrow, they did it to judge your reaction to involvement of third party.
And you, in very patriotic manner, answered that , you would escalate after certain point.
So you have given a third party the licence to go to s certain extent, that's first defeat in game of posturing.
 

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
Ya. But because they will be fighting in your backyard, the casualty & loss will be mostly yours. How are you planning to level that up?

If US attacks Chinese mainland, do you think China will just watch? It will attack US territory too. Guam is pretty much gone, so is Hawaii. China will use air refueling to attack US west coast too. China can also use long range missile to strike conventionally on US homeland. That's just now. In 5 years, China's stealth Bomber will be developed. In 10 years, it will be ready to strike US homeland without needing refueling. And no im not talking about using nukes. China can bomb US without nukes.

China will surpass US very soon. All the advantages US has now will be gone due to Chinese economic and tech rise.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
You are mistaken. Democracy does not imply tolerance or propensity towards separatism. Take a good look at how little progress separatist movements have made in the West.
No, you are mistaken. I said nothing about separatism; I said it is inefficient and results in incompetence as seen in massive populations like India. It also causes a nation's politicians to waste time infighting for an election, broadcasting their views to enemy powers in the attempt to win over the uneducated masses. It's not a system for China and the West has no choice but to accept that.
There are plenty of countries that are strong, yet democratic. There is no reason to assume that a democratic China would be weaker than it is today.
And none of those nations have China's population. India has but it is a failure. Even among the strongest democracies, they do not grow and advance at the pace China is doing so today. China has a wonderful system that it invented for itself which is working fantasically; it's not looking for a replacement.
I also fail to follow your argument that democracy, an ostensibly western idea does not befit the Chinese, while another western idea, communism does? Western or Oriental provenance is completely irrelevant.
You did not understand that part. I meant that your way of conceding and giving in, whether it be politically or anything else, befits your country, not China. Your country can give in. We won't. We keep our system and nobody can make us change it. It is a curious fetish of Western countries to try to change others to their system. I really don't understand this. Mind your own business; no sale here so go away. Don't pester people to adopt your way.
China, like most countries, has discovered and will keep discovering what works best for it. It doesn't have to be democracy.
Absolutely, and it has. China's system is highly unique and neither communist, Marxist, nor democratic, autocratic, etc... It is the Chinese system, invented by China for China. That's all we want.
I am just saying that if it was, it would make unification a bloodless affair.
Yeah, but becoming too powerful to oppose will also achieve that so we'll go this way, thanks. No need to keep trying to make the democracy sale here. That's a no from us, m'kay? Please take us off your call list.
 
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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
So you have given a third party the licence to go to s certain extent, that's first defeat in game of posturing.
You mean that I told the US that China wouldn't attack their mainland unless they attack ours? It's pretty much a given. I don't think anybody expected or even would believe that China would throw ICBMS at the US the instant it sees a US military asset sail to Taiwan. It's not a license to do anything because when they are under the extent, we strike back as well, but also under a certain extent. They still have all their ships and foreign bases to lose before then.

In either case, America's not going to dare to fight anyway. They've shown multiple times that they will not fight a nuclear country; they've seen Russia carve out Ukraine and Georgia without any action, and in the SCS, 1,000 miles away from China, America still dares only sail ships in circles in protest. America doesn't fight strong nuclear countries; it protests their actions.
 

vincent

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
You are mistaken. Democracy does not imply tolerance or propensity towards separatism. Take a good look at how little progress separatist movements have made in the West.

There are plenty of countries that are strong, yet democratic. There is no reason to assume that a democratic China would be weaker than it is today. I also fail to follow your argument that democracy, an ostensibly western idea does not befit the Chinese, while another western idea, communism does? Western or Oriental provenance is completely irrelevant. China, like most countries, has discovered and will keep discovering what works best for it. It doesn't have to be democracy. I am just saying that if it was, it would make unification a bloodless affair.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Western style democracy has failed to uplift country after country (Latin America, Middle East, Africa), and as recent pandemic has shown, incompetent, yet people continue to advocate it for other countries. Wonder why
 

weig2000

Captain
That excellently sums up the reason why US and Japan are likely to intervene in a violent attempt at re-unification. They either do that or cede their dominance of the western Pacific to (from their POV) hostile China.

Having said that, I still think it is possible for China to achieve unification without a fight and in a way that would not be challenged by the US and Japan. Long ago, Sun Yat Sen had a dream of a unified, strong and independent, yet democratic China. If the CCP can make that dream come true, then Taiwan would be irresistibly drawn into its orbit and both the US and Japan disarmed in their attempts to resist it.

I think China is fully prepared to deal with the US/Japan military intervention in the war of Taiwan unification. They have been preparing all these years. Without going into the details, I think even the US knows that the chance that it can intervene successfully is slim now, unless it escalates to the thermal nuclear level, in which case we all know there will be no winner. The bottom line is that China's will is much, much stronger when it comes to Taiwan, simply because it's Chinese territory. And the capability is in place now too, and grows stronger by the day.

Taiwan once had good chance to negotiate some good terms. Mainland China was ready and willing to concede a lot if Taiwan came to the negotiating table. This was particularly true in the early to mid-90's when the relative power balance between the two was most favorable to Taiwan (Taiwan's GDP was 45% of mainland's at its peak around that time; last year it was 4%). That chance has slipped away.

China's official standing policy for Taiwan is still "One Country, Two Systems" which started in the early '80s. But it is increasingly viewed in China as out-of-date and out of sync with reality. The OCTW policy was initially created for Taiwan, but had been implemented in Hong Kong first. China made huge concessions for the smooth return of Hong Kong, because it had a much weaker hand then. The lessons learned from Hong Kong's returning and since suggest that the unification with Taiwan must be predominately on China's terms for the better future governance of Taiwan (and the logical conclusion would be that the unification process might not be all that peaceful after all, but might be better in the long term...). DPP's brainwashing on Taiwan's new generation in the last 25 years has also made peaceful unification increasingly hopeless. The late Singapore prime mister and Singapore's founding father, Mr Lee Kuan Yew, who had very good relationships with both Chinese and Taiwanese leaders, once commented that DPP was very irresponsible and even cruel to instill the idea and sense of Taiwan independence into Taiwan's younger generation, because they would have a very hard and painful time to adjust when it is reunified with mainland China. Clearly, Mr. Lee believes Taiwan will be reunified with China.

OK, all these may be too complex to talk about here. I don't know how familiar you and people here are with Taiwan and/or Hong Kong issues. One thing is clear, if people mostly follow western media coverage on Taiwan, you will get a very limited or even wrong picture. Here is a
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on Taiwan, the author is an American living in Taiwan, who speaks Chinese and is staunchly anti-PRC/CCP. Even he feels something uneasy beyond the superficial western coverage of Taiwan.

As recently as a few years ago, I read an editorial in The Economist - I think it was around January 2017 issue, but am not too sure. It advised that China should leave Taiwan alone, and in exchange, China is allowed to have the right to reach nuclear parity with the US. Something like that. I was shocked. The Economist, as a premier western journal, clearly has no idea what Taiwan meant for China. The editorial was partly motivated by the feeling of increasingly powerful presence of China on the world stage and the palpable pressure of China's willingness to bring Taiwan to the fold. Yet it still talks about China so naively and condescendingly.
 
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