China need a new geopolitical Doctrine ?


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ougoah

Brigadier
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I want to commend this attitude. The loudmouths here always seem to operate on the principle that the Chinese government is full of incompetents who couldn't tie their own shoelaces, despite every evidence to the contrary. Nobodies "criticizing" Usain Bolt's running practice.

And you're also right that Huawei isn't the hill to die on. Even if the whole EU outright bans Huawei's 5G, so what? They're just condemning themselves to technological backwardness, which exactly where they need to be as far as I'm concerned. China sharing with others the crown jewels of its technology always left a foul taste in my mouth.

Oh, and lest we forget, Huawei owns the 5G patent portfolio. Huawei gets paid no matter what.

Unless Ericsson and Nokia find different ways to achieve that without infringing on Huawei's patents.
 

Weaasel

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Not sure of the validity of this article but if true, and with France caved to US pressure, its high likelyhood Germany will fall to US coerce within the next couple months if not weeks... then basically EU is no longer a viable 5G market for China...


It is absolutely not surprising. I expect all Western and EU countries to act this way against Huawei. I have been saying for years that China must assiduously ensure that it has the domestic capability of producing any particular good that is worth producing and must focus heavily on its domestic market.

Led by the United States, the West will not welcome the operations of a major tech company from a country that is not aligned to it, and they will try to disrupt operations of such a company in all markets, including domestic markets if possible, by utilizing all methodologies available to it, short of going to war.

There is urgently a need for a break through in manufacturing a EUV machine comparable to what ASML possesses and other semiconductor and chip manufacturing equipment, that will demonstrate to the US, the West, and countries aligned with them, that a tech embargo on China is ineffective, and it will create an entire high tech supply chain thoroughly independent from cut off by the US. When this happens, one will see the breaking of ranks among the US Alliance to sell their state of the art goods to China, which it will be wise for China to accommodate to a significant extent. Countries outside the US Alliance system will also be free of threats of sanctions against them by the US for using products that the US does not want them to use.
 
I want to commend this attitude. The loudmouths here always seem to operate on the principle that the Chinese government is full of incompetents who couldn't tie their own shoelaces, despite every evidence to the contrary. Nobodies "criticizing" Usain Bolt's running practice.

And you're also right that Huawei isn't the hill to die on. Even if the whole EU outright bans Huawei's 5G, so what? They're just condemning themselves to technological backwardness, which exactly where they need to be as far as I'm concerned. China sharing with others the crown jewels of its technology always left a foul taste in my mouth.

Oh, and lest we forget, Huawei owns the 5G patent portfolio. Huawei gets paid no matter what.
I do think it would be hilarious if Africa ended up with better telecoms than Europe after this LOLOL
 

SPOOPYSKELETON

Junior Member
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Yes, hypothetically had US not interfered at all, then its most likely the base case that most of EU would have gone with Huawei, in the sense that at least very few counties would have by themselves come out and banned Huawei from involvement. Indeed, UK is the prime case where they had already announced that Huawei could play up to a 35% role in the rollout but then retroactively reneged based on continued US pressure.

First it was the arrest of Meng/CFO that cast a black eye on Huawei international reputation, then it was the putting of Huawei on the entity list. These things in and of itself would have killed most any other company. And certainty fair or not, were in many nations thoughts and calculations when decided which vendor to pick etc...

Then came COVID-19, even assuming it was a natural event and that no nation had a hand in any sort of biowar etc the fact of the matter is the US government maligned China, with top officials like Cotton, Pompeo, Trump accusing China of Wuhan biolabs leak, repeatedly calling it the China/Chinese Virus, asking the world to unite in confronting China in terms of forcing China to pay reparations and also to decouple from China... all this propaganda served to influence the hearts and minds of many citizens around the world, with the US injecting the false attribution that all this was because of the CCP and therefore we must stop Huawei because Huawei == CCP , etc etc

Then the final blows came from the Trump admin going against Pentagon advice/recommendations (or at least what we ostensibly know publicly) and forcing TSMC to sever relationships with Huawei. This changed the security profile of Huawei 5G in that now the likes of the UK whom had previously okayed Huawei had to re-assess the entire thing, because in the future these chips will be made in China with Chinese supply chain rather than American vassal ones, and it adds to the risk because if Huawei couldn't survive the chip bans then there goes UK's 5G investment... By TSMC cutting Huawei off, it effectively made it too risky just from a operational risk standpoint for many nations to continue with Huawei, even when not adding in the propaganda b.s. of security/backdoors/CCP etc etc...

Most recently the US sanctioned all Huawei employees, this had the goal of setting back Huawei's ability to recruit talent from abroad/within and also the demoralize existing Huawei employees and affect them emotionally and personally and in short to continue to harass and cause troubles for Huawei... this is not unlike the NordStream 2 workers that were sanctioned because the US didn't want Russia to complete with it for energy

Now I actually believe there is more to this Huawei 5G thing than meets the eye.... I think part of the reason the US put so much pressure on other nations to change course on the Huawei/China issue is because its already shoring up allies for the coming Cold War which is soon to go hot, I believe America's intent is not just to curb China's rise but actually in truth what the US really wants is to harvest China, to carve China up into many pieces, and as a consequence also a complete regime change of the CCP, with a hot war in the SCS this year or latest by 2021, and with the intent to do a nuclear first strike on all of China if all else fails to collapse China from within and isolate China externally.

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I looked into your post a bit further. One of the pieces of evidence you cite is the leaked population projections calling for a w/3 reduction in America's population.
You think this is how much the USA is willing to lose in a nuclear war.

I don't buy that for a second, given America's current social dysfunction. A nuclear war would destroy the nation for good, since there is no common culture or race that binds us together. So put that worry out of your mind.

With that said, the source of that Stat is something called Deagel.com

I thin this is something China should be making more of. Fake news websites that subvert and occupy the target population with nonsensical conspiracy theories. It's an elementary psyop, but it seems that China spends little on influencing Western society effectively. Meanwhile the West spreads nonsense about the 3 Gorges Dam. It's the inability to impose costs on America for having utterly detached from reality opinions on China that I consider China's core PR failure.
 

Weaasel

Junior Member
Registered Member
I want to commend this attitude. The loudmouths here always seem to operate on the principle that the Chinese government is full of incompetents who couldn't tie their own shoelaces, despite every evidence to the contrary. Nobodies "criticizing" Usain Bolt's running practice.

And you're also right that Huawei isn't the hill to die on. Even if the whole EU outright bans Huawei's 5G, so what? They're just condemning themselves to technological backwardness, which exactly where they need to be as far as I'm concerned. China sharing with others the crown jewels of its technology always left a foul taste in my mouth.

Oh, and lest we forget, Huawei owns the 5G patent portfolio. Huawei gets paid no matter what.


As long as Huawei and other Chinese companies remain reliant on high end chips and manufacturing equipment from countries that are part of the US Alliance system and indeed any foreign country with the exception presently of Russia, they are highly vulnerable. It does not matter what patent portfolio that they may own.
 

BMEWS

Junior Member
Registered Member
As long as Huawei and other Chinese companies remain reliant on high end chips and manufacturing equipment from countries that are part of the US Alliance system and indeed any foreign country with the exception presently of Russia, they are highly vulnerable. It does not matter what patent portfolio that they may own.

Just like Steve Bannon told Trump that killing Huawei was 10X more important than signing any Trade Deal...

likewise

Chinese Tech independence (esp from that of US/West) is 10X more important than short term profits (5G contracts) to China's long term strategic future
 

Sleepyjam

Junior Member
Registered Member
That is precisely what I am saying. China should not overacting on this huawei drama. It is a just a PR trap. The real battle is not there.
If a country don't want huawei China should not care so much.



Exactly. At least we have someone not hypocrite here. And when China were doing that, the US Gov were not making threat.
lol US was definitely making threats about China buying American agriculture, so typical of the western colonial mindset
 

escobar

Brigadier
What does "effective" PR even mean? To make countries use Huawei or what is the goal and how would you achieve it? I have asked you this before and you have no answers except to be a backseat driver complaining about everything.

We have already debate on that but you prefer empty and rhetoric talk. It is not even about Huawei.
But in a the HW case, why should you set as a goal to make a country use it when you don't really have the power to do that and the whole country Gov don't want it? It will end with threat and theatrical.
 

Weaasel

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just like Steve Bannon told Trump that killing Huawei was 10X more important than signing any Trade Deal...

likewise

Chinese Tech independence (esp from that of US/West) is 10X more important than short term profits (5G contracts) to China's long term strategic future

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I do not understand why there continue to be Chinese experts within the industry who are so conciliatory and speak so hopefully about global integration when it is clear that there are those who are trying to press a knife at one's throat and kind words will not stop them. I take it that Process Wei Shaojun is indeed an expert in the technical side of the industry, but he comes across as extremity naive about geopolitics and the clear intention of the United States to stifle and probably even destroy China semiconductor and other high tech industries. Having the capability of producing worth having high tech goods equal to or surpassing that which presently exist or will exist is absolutely imperative for China not to be blackmailed by any single or alliance of different countries as it is being done to it now. I really do not see how replicating an EUV Machine very similarly capable to what ASML possesses necessitates that one works with others to achieve it, even though that would be nice.
 
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