China Flanker Thread II

[vesicles]

Ballistic missiles is one area where china has been able to build its own world class tech base.

Doesn't this mean Chinese engineers are capable of being innovative?

They haven't been able to do it in engines because they have (had) been solving some basic problems. Once those being solved, they, then, will be able to move on and become innovative.

 

[dingyibvs]

Not wanting to spoil your party but chinese engineers are not well know to innovate, much less design world class products. It remains to be seen if they can really go beyond making advanced copies of russian/western tech.

Ballistic missiles is one area where china has been able to build its own world class tech base. Whether they can make the same in aerospace (and other areas) or not, remains to be seen.

What's so hard about thinking up a new idea? Are Chinese people genetically incapable of innovation? Why is thinking up a new design for a manned aircraft so different from say a new ballistic missile, a new UCAV(have you seen their innovative designs?), or heck, even an Olympic opening show? Sure they take different technical backgrounds, but the ability to be creative is the same, no?

The reason Chinese engineers haven't gone beyond making advanced copies is because they have lacked the ability to manufacture anything more advanced. What's the point of designing an aerial vehicle which makes use of anti-gravity engines and anti-matter cannons when you lack the technical know-how to manufacture such things? And really, that's what it's all about. that's why I laugh at people who think "copying" an aircraft is so easy. For example, re: J-11B, if China can produce its own engines, radars, FCS, missiles, composite materials, etc. etc. do people REALLY think that it couldn't have come up with an original-looking airframe?

 

[challenge]

What's so hard about thinking up a new idea? Are Chinese people genetically incapable of innovation? Why is thinking up a new design for a manned aircraft so different from say a new ballistic missile, a new UCAV(have you seen their innovative designs?), or heck, even an Olympic opening show? Sure they take different technical backgrounds, but the ability to be creative is the same, no?

The reason Chinese engineers haven't gone beyond making advanced copies is because they have lacked the ability to manufacture anything more advanced. What's the point of designing an aerial vehicle which makes use of anti-gravity engines and anti-matter cannons when you lack the technical know-how to manufacture such things? And really, that's what it's all about. that's why I laugh at people who think "copying" an aircraft is so easy. For example, re: J-11B, if China can produce its own engines, radars, FCS, missiles, composite materials, etc. etc. do people REALLY think that it couldn't have come up with an original-looking airframe?

problem can traced back to the 1950's,according to a Chinese engineering professor,quote," the russian teach us how to copy, but not innovation".
Then come mao's cultural revolution, thousand of professor were persecuted by the red guard, not to mention bigger number of student join the red guard,went on rampage,"destroy the old" as they call it,a tsinghua university professor label it as "lost generation.
what happen in the 60's leave large scar on chinese economy.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

problem can traced back to the 1950's,according to a Chinese engineering professor,quote," the russian teach us how to copy, but not innovation".
Then come mao's cultural revolution, thousand of professor were persecuted by the red guard, not to mention bigger number of student join the red guard,went on rampage,"destroy the old" as they call it,a tsinghua university professor label it as "lost generation.
what happen in the 60's leave large scar on chinese economy.

Nothing but fairy tale, all of those are water under the bridge .They keep regurgitating those stale lie and stupid putdown

The torch has been passed and a new generation of designer has been born

The average age of J-17designer are 30 years old. the lead engineer is only in his 40's !

That just show how scare they are of new competition!

 

[dingyibvs]

problem can traced back to the 1950's,according to a Chinese engineering professor,quote," the russian teach us how to copy, but not innovation".
Then come mao's cultural revolution, thousand of professor were persecuted by the red guard, not to mention bigger number of student join the red guard,went on rampage,"destroy the old" as they call it,a tsinghua university professor label it as "lost generation.
what happen in the 60's leave large scar on chinese economy.

Somewhat true, tho debatable and entirely irrelevant. I presented evidence of China's ability to innovate and manufacture today, and posed the question of what prevents it from applying it to aircraft innovations.

 

[montyp165]

China has already started innovating in areas the US has only begun to notice, so if anything Chinese aren't getting much attention about that, which can be advantageous.

 

[lcloo]

The urge to renovate is strong among the young as seen by the darksword design but the top decision making positions are still occupied by older generation who prefered safe and steady progress. They may be afraid of being critized for possible failuires, and also to protect their hard gained position.

This mentality of avoiding failure and saving face is less obvious in western countries but in orental culture it is very prevailing. Conservatism is strong in Chna.

The after effect of red guard is still there though is very much insignificant.

The design of JL-9 is a safer path than a totally new one and it bears fruit, L-15 is still waiting for orders that did not materialize. J-8 production is going on and new version still appearing.

The innovative culture has creeped in but it does not bolt well with old traditions which I hope will change in the very near future when younger generations take charge.

 

[Schumacher]

Military fanboys continue to think about innovation as some kind of 'magic' that can only be done by some chosen ones.
With the right culture of placing high value on education, economic structure that's moving towards high wages & value and of course plenty of capital etc, China is on the right track back to its position as an innovation leader for centuries.
US, which rely heavily on foreigners, especially those from China, for its high tech fields are going the opposite way by turning increasingly xenophobic in these related policies.

 

[ZTZ99]

Not wanting to spoil your party but chinese engineers are not well know to innovate, much less design world class products. It remains to be seen if they can really go beyond making advanced copies of russian/western tech.

Ballistic missiles is one area where china has been able to build its own world class tech base. Whether they can make the same in aerospace (and other areas) or not, remains to be seen.

Maybe you can explain to us which "russian/western" engine the WS-10A is a copy of and present your evidence along with it.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

This mentality of avoiding failure and saving face is less obvious in western countries but in orental culture it is very prevailing. Conservatism is strong in Chna.

The after effect of red guard is still there though is very much insignificant.

The design of JL-9 is a safer path than a totally new one and it bears fruit, L-15 is still waiting for orders that did not materialize. J-8 production is going on and new version still appearing.

The innovative culture has creeped in but it does not bolt well with old traditions which I hope will change in the very near future when younger generations take charge.

JL-9 was chosen has nothing to do with conservatism or safer approach more to do with limited budget. Remember Chinese defense budget is only 1/10 of US budget. When money is limited you set priority . JL-9 is cheap using readily available domestic parts. Plus L-15 has not yet reached its potential. The AJT and Lift version has yet to be built because of delay in Ukraine supplied Jet engine. China normally only procured equipment with total domestic part or licence and locally built parts

So your posting is just a personal opinion !