China Flanker Thread II


schrage musik

New Member
Registered Member
After seeing the J-10 TVC demonstrator at Zhuhai 2018, surely it was only a matter of time before that engine made its way into new built flankers. Having a functional TVC engine will give a Flanker superior maneuvrability (especially at high altitude), better turn rates and shorter takeoff runs compared to their primary A2A adversaries, the F-15s operated by Japan, South Korea and Singapore and the Rafales operated by India. With a higher thrust engine and possiblylower airframe weight, it could even outmaneuver the Indian Su-30MKIs.

Makes sense to call such a plane a Chinese Su-35. What doesn't make sense is building new J-11Bs when you can give J-16 the same engine/fcs/avionics upgrades and have an aircraft that is better at both A2A and A2G missions.
 
After seeing the J-10 TVC demonstrator at Zhuhai 2018, surely it was only a matter of time before that engine made its way into new built flankers. Having a functional TVC engine will give a Flanker superior maneuvrability (especially at high altitude), better turn rates and shorter takeoff runs compared to their primary A2A adversaries, the F-15s operated by Japan, South Korea and Singapore and the Rafales operated by India. With a higher thrust engine and possiblylower airframe weight, it could even outmaneuver the Indian Su-30MKIs.

Makes sense to call such a plane a Chinese Su-35. What doesn't make sense is building new J-11Bs when you can give J-16 the same engine/fcs/avionics upgrades and have an aircraft that is better at both A2A and A2G missions.
well, it doesn't really matter in the era of BVR
 

schrage musik

New Member
Registered Member
well, it doesn't really matter in the era of BVR
A superior plane is a superior plane. Evading an incoming missile still depends on an aircraft being able to pull tight turns at high speed. It was simiar considerations that led to the incorporation of TVC in the F-22, even though it was designed to engage enemy aircraft primarily with BVR missiles.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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After seeing the J-10 TVC demonstrator at Zhuhai 2018, surely it was only a matter of time before that engine made its way into new built flankers. Having a functional TVC engine will give a Flanker superior maneuvrability (especially at high altitude), better turn rates and shorter takeoff runs compared to their primary A2A adversaries, the F-15s operated by Japan, South Korea and Singapore and the Rafales operated by India. With a higher thrust engine and possiblylower airframe weight, it could even outmaneuver the Indian Su-30MKIs.

Makes sense to call such a plane a Chinese Su-35. What doesn't make sense is building new J-11Bs when you can give J-16 the same engine/fcs/avionics upgrades and have an aircraft that is better at both A2A and A2G missions.

I think you are overrating and mixing a few rumors here:

First, there was this very much altered single image claiming there is an special J-11B testbed fitted with TVC-engines - as such comparable to those used on the J-10B testbed - being tested or at least prepared at SAC and second, there are reports about the latest Batch J-11BS using an uprated (about 14t of thrust) WS-10B.

There are no reports about anew serial Flankers using an uprated TVC engine.
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
well, it doesn't really matter in the era of BVR
Regardless of the accuracy of these rumours, it does matter very much in BVR still. It matters how long you can stay in the air, how quickly you can climb and how well you can manage your available energy and speed to maximise the reach and kill probability of your weapons. Not only this but how well you can respond to changing situations, how well you can defend your position from multiple attacking angles, and how flexible your fighters are. Performance has always and will always matter as long as they are burning fuel and are limited by carried weapons.
 

schrage musik

New Member
Registered Member
I think you are overrating and mixing a few rumors here:

First, there was this very much altered single image claiming there is an special J-11B testbed fitted with TVC-engines - as such comparable to those used on the J-10B testbed - being tested or at least prepared at SAC and second, there are reports about the latest Batch J-11BS using an uprated (about 14t of thrust) WS-10B.

There are no reports about anew serial Flankers using an uprated TVC engine.
Not suggesting TVC equipped flankers are in production, merely that the "chinese version of Su-35" rumor strongly hints towards the TVC version of WS-10 seen on J-20 and J-10 about to make its way on flankers.

If there is any aspect where the Su-35 outclasses Chinese flankers like J-16/J-11D, it is in its high thrust TVC engines that allow it unprecedented maneuvrability. China has the engine, it has the planes still in production, what the rumor suggests is a logical next step.

All depends on how much truth there is in the existence of a chinese version of Su 35.
 

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