China Flanker Thread II

[Blitzo]

I too think radar guidance has in the past been lackuster for ground targets. But technology moves on and I don't think it's out of the question sufficient resolution could be achieved with radar to make it a valid option.

Of course, using radar seeker on a large stand off missile probably means that satnav has already gotten the missile to a location where the missile has to scan a fairly small area. If the target is a structure, the radar should be able to discern the part of the building and help the missile go right in the middle, or in a specific window or so on. There's also value in having a really long stand off range against some other targets such as sam system components, various EW radars, MLRS components etc. Engaging them from 200+ km might be worth the effort.

Again i am not saying IT IS that. I'm merely musing about possibilities. Actually, I think we also may be looking at a universal training round for all missiles of similar body type. So while PLAAF's J16s may have indeed gotten an antiship, it may also be a training stand in for a simple optically guided KD88.

I would just like to stop the discussion from going into wrong direction. My desire is to just mention possibilities, however likely or unlikely they are. Not to discuss something to death and go off topic and try to prove anything to anyone.

Alternatively, I think the most likely answer is just that PLAAF J-16s have an anti shipping capability as well.

We know KD-88 has a variety of seeker heads, some of which are radomes. Anti radiation seekers for KD-88 have been suggested in the past, and the possibility of ARH for KD-88 exists too, but those variants are rarely seen and the majority of KD-88s we see are ImIR or CCR guided.
Not to mention the small but distinctive differences between a KD-88 and a YJ-83K, where the missiles in that picture are obviously consistent with YJ-83K rather than KD-88.


So I dont think we need to bend over in various directions to rationalize what kind of missile this *actually* is.

... After all, the idea of PLAAF aircraft having an anti shipping mission is far from beyond the pale, if anything it should be long expected.

 

[Totoro]

Without going into likelihood of what that training missile is to represent, of course unifying the capabilities would be most beneficial. If the whole J16 fleet also trained for antishipping strikes and was enabled to perform them - and if plaaf's jh7 fleet did the same (if it made financial sense. For example if those jh7 are to serve another 20 years) then the overal number of planes capable of antishipping strikes might increase from 200 or so to 450+ in just a matter of a few years. Even more if PLAAF's H6K get similar capability.

And it could work both ways. Why wouldn't PLANAF's planes also train more for air to ground strikes? I do believe there were SOME images of their JH7 carrying LGBs, but a winder specturum of atg missions and more training could make them even more multirole.

Then again, I personally find the whole plaaf/planaf division silly. Planaf is basically a complete air force on its own. Perhaps, with the approaching multiple carrier force it may be time to seriously rework the organization and give much of the current ground based plane units to plaaf. And keep only units which would represent a more clear distinction in a role, without much overlap. Like carrier borne planes, maritime patrol/ASW planes and perhaps large, bomber sized antishipping platforms (mostly because they might benefit from specialized electronics to also serve in the maritime patrol role)

 

[Haris Ali]

Can anyone tell what's the overall difference between J-11, J-15 and J-16???

 

[Deino]

Can anyone tell what's the overall difference between J-11, J-15 and J-16???

Really? ... just look here as a start:

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[Haris Ali]

Really? ... just look here as a start:

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Thanks sir.

So J-11 is licensed copy of SU-27.
J-15 is chinese version on SU-27 with chinese components.

But where does J-16 fit in???

 

[Deino]

Thanks sir.

So J-11 is licensed copy of SU-27.
J-15 is chinese version on SU-27 with chinese components.

But where does J-16 fit in???

Sorry, but did you read that page??

J-11 = licenced Su-27SK ... J-11B further development with WS-10A and Chinese avionics
J-11BS = unlicenced Su-27UBK
J-15 = unlicenced Su-33 (carrier-borne fighter)
J-16 = twin-seater, striker, based on Su-30MKK

 

[Haris Ali]

Sorry, but did you read that page??

J-11 = licenced Su-27SK ... J-11B further development with WS-10A and Chinese avionics
J-11BS = unlicenced Su-27UBK
J-15 = unlicenced Su-33 (carrier-borne fighter)
J-16 = twin-seater, striker, vased on Su-30MKK

Sorry I did read but mixed them.

 

[Blitzo]

Some thoughts I've had about the air data probes/pitots aboard different SAC Flankers.

Previously there was some thought that the presence of an air data probe on the radome of an aircraft suggests it may be using a mechanically scanned array, but looking closely we can see that different SAC Flankers have different air data probe configurations. J-11B and J-15 (both understood to have mechanically scanned arrays) have different configurations with an air data probe on the radome as well as probes on the side, while J-16 and J-11D and J-15D (understood to have AESAs) have configurations where there is no probe on the radome and only probes on the side.

However, J-11BG with its grey radome and which we suspect have been upgraded with an AESA, retains its radome air data probe.
Similarly, upgraded F-16Vs upgraded with AESAs also retain its air data probe on the radome.



..... now, the reason I bring this up is because there are a few pictures floating by recently which have been interpreted as J-15 airframes for J-15 batch 3 (J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread) -- yet on the nose we can see that the air data probe on the radome is still there.

... However I find it somewhat doubtful that SAC would produce J-15s in 2020 with mechanically scanned arrays (or indeed without any meaningful upgrade from the original J-15s). Therefore, if we know from other examples that a radome air data probe doesn't preclude an AESA from being present, I have to wonder if we should keep an ear out for what kind of upgrades these supposed batch 3 J-15s may or may not have.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Some thoughts I've had about the air data probes/pitots aboard different SAC Flankers.

Previously there was some thought that the presence of an air data probe on the radome of an aircraft suggests it may be using a mechanically scanned array, but looking closely we can see that different SAC Flankers have different air data probe configurations. J-11B and J-15 (both understood to have mechanically scanned arrays) have different configurations with an air data probe on the radome as well as probes on the side, while J-16 and J-11D and J-15D (understood to have AESAs) have configurations where there is no probe on the radome and only probes on the side.

However, J-11BG with its grey radome and which we suspect have been upgraded with an AESA, retains its radome air data probe.
Similarly, upgraded F-16Vs upgraded with AESAs also retain its air data probe on the radome.



..... now, the reason I bring this up is because there are a few pictures floating by recently which have been interpreted as J-15 airframes for J-15 batch 3 (J-15 Carrier Multirole Fighter thread) -- yet on the nose we can see that the air data probe on the radome is still there.

... However I find it somewhat doubtful that SAC would produce J-15s in 2020 with mechanically scanned arrays (or indeed without any meaningful upgrade from the original J-15s). Therefore, if we know from other examples that a radome air data probe doesn't preclude an AESA from being present, I have to wonder if we should keep an ear out for what kind of upgrades these supposed batch 3 J-15s may or may not have.

View attachment 57646

well hopefully we will be seeing some "primer birds" soon enough, we shall see, I wouldn't necessarily expect big changes until the CATOBAR bird rolls out???

 

[siegecrossbow]

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Don't think we've seen this J-16 before.