China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

[Broccoli]

Maybe it's a space based wind turbine.

 

[Broccoli]

I'm more interested if this means we'll see new DF-5 variants or completely new liquid-fueled ICBM? Looking at Russian HGV deployments their liquid-fueled UR-100N can haul only one Avargard HGV.

I'd assume HGV + FOBS payload would require also something with more powerful than DF-41.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

I'm more interested if this means we'll see new DF-5 variants or completely new liquid-fueled ICBM?

I suspect this points to an upgrade program for the DF-5 (which hopefully includes structural and engine upgrades as well). Given the payload you sacrifice by launching an ICBM on an orbital trajectory, this really only makes sense for heavy liquid-fuelled ICBMs who have the throw weight to spare. Furthermore, one of the advantages of FOBs is that you can approach the target from any angle by choosing the orbital plane of your launch (and whether you approach with a clockwise or counter-clockwise trajectory) from a static site. To do this with a ballistic trajectory, you have to change the point of launch, e.g. by launching from a submarine.

I'm less sure that China would introduce an entirely new missile like the Sarmat. We would have heard rumours about that but with the new opsec, who knows.

Looking at Russian HGV deployments their liquid-fueled UR-100N can haul only one Avargard HGV.

The UR-100N is a much smaller missile than the DF-5 (around half the weight) and the Avangard has to have much heavier thermal shielding since it's on an endo-atmospheric trajectory for almost the entirety of its flight. This is not what I think the Chinese system does - the glider seems to kick in near the terminal phase, so the shielding can be much lighter.

I'd assume HGV + FOBS payload would require also something with more powerful than DF-41.

DF-45s might be able to carry it. We'll see once we know more about the missile.

 

[styx]

I think that the real advantage of a fobs (without hgv) is that it can manouver in low orbit (change orbit) making all abm radars and midcourse interception (sm-3 and nmd) missiles meaningless. So america is f****d.

 

[anzha]

I think that the real advantage of a fobs (without hgv) is that it can manouver in low orbit (change orbit) making all abm radars and midcourse interception (sm-3 and nmd) missiles meaningless. So america is f****d.

If there's ever a nuclear war between China and America, both China and America are fscked. No one wins. That's the point of MAD. There's no economic scenario where an American or Chinese NMD system will prevent an all out devastating vaporization and murder of each others' citizens.

The same with the Russians. They are another thread's topic though. For that matter, even Chinese and American missile defense are as well.

 

[Kich]

He said the following: "First, the American defense against a nuclear attack on its territory, whether by ballistic missile, orbital missile (FOBS) or hypersonic type HGV, is the certainty of the response at the same level or worse. There must be balls for the Chinese to attack the continental US and vice versa.
Second, the first part of the detection and warning of a missile launch (ballistic, hypersonic or orbital) is provided by the network of infrared warning satellites in orbit, more precisely by the DSP, STSS and SBIRS systems.
Satellites monitor the entire globe and therefore missiles can be launched from any point on land or at sea that will be detected.
The second phase of the alert is carried out via fixed ground radars, namely: Cobra Dane (1 station in Alaska), PAVE PAWS (3 stations in 3 states), BMEWS (3 active stations in 3 states). These radars are intended to detect re-entry vehicles while still in space in order to confirm the initial warning coming from the satellites.
There are also mobile radars from the THAAD (TPY-2) and Aegis (SPY-1) systems and the radar mounted on a mobile naval platform, the SBX-1.
That said, the intention to send missiles via the South Pole via the FOBS concept was based on an attempt to surprise the enemy who kept their surveillance radar facing north. Today this is not irrelevant since it is much easier to launch missiles towards the north from SSBN submarines positioned south of the target. The effect is the same.
Not to mention that as said before, the alarm will be given anyway in view of the first phase of detection being orbital, through the IR surveillance satellites.
If there is a launch from the south there would still be USN Aegis components monitoring around the south face of the US that would give confirmation that the target is the US. Orbital vehicles via FOBS, ballistic (via SLBM) or via HGV are used.
It does not matter if the vehicle (warhead) reaches a high peak of up to 1200 km (ballistic missile), or orbits at a low level (150 km) or if it has been gliding (40 to 70 km). All will be detected.
As a ballistic missile or orbital vehicle it can be engaged by an SM-3 launched from an Aegis vessel. SM-3 Block IIA is being validated to intercept ICBM level threats.
As an HGV can be engaged by a THAAD while in the intermediate or terminal phase
As an hour the HGV has to descend to reach its target it would become the target of a system like the Patriot equipped with a PAC-3 MSE or an SM-6 when it drops to 35 km high in the terminal phase.
Ah! Does he maneuver? Now! rssss go pick coconuts with this maneuver. Airplane also maneuvers and not for that reason is invulnerable. This is the most ridiculous generalized idea that anyone has had the sloppiness to make and publicize. It is second only to the idea that eating mangoes and drinking milk is bad for you.
No wonder the Russians and Chinese are invented ways to pierce the American shield. Soon, the AB FIII destroyers will come into operation with SPY-6 radars with GaN 100 times more capable than the current SPY-1 and which together with missiles such as the SM-6, SM-6 Block IB and SM-3 Block IIA will be a tough nut to crack.
The USA is implementing a new AESA GaN-based radar for the Patriot system, which already has the PAC-3 MSE and is compatible with the Israeli Stunner.
The THAAD system is receiving AESA GaN radars and an ER (increased range) version is in development that will triple performance."

Such a long rambling nonsense.

He could have easily said any launched can be detected because of space based IR sats.
Fixed based Radars and sea based moving radars can see the missile, glider, etc once it's in space or re-entering.

And then he ignores physics of OVTH limits of radars and the speed of interceptor missiles or lack there off compared to their targets. I guess if I throw a rock, I can intercept an 1800mph bullet passing by because hey, I was able to detect that said bullet. What a joke. The same echo-chamber shit from this guy permeates on so many defense subs on reddit.

 

[escobar]

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[anzha]

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From the link:

“In the past we’ve put a lot of confidence in our assessment of what an adversary like China will do in the future, and we use that to inform how we want to make our investments. And one of the lessons that I’ve taken from my own experience is perhaps we should look at what is possible from a physics perspective, as opposed to what we think they’re going to do,” Niemi, PACAF’s director of strategy, plans, programs, and requirements, said in a Monday

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hosted by the Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance. “Because China, again and again, has proven that if it is possible within physics, and it will surface another hole in our swings, that they will do it.”

As I have said before and I will again: the laws of physics don't care what color your flag is.

 

[Hub]

From the link:


As I have said before and I will again: the laws of physics don't care what color your flag

I'm more interested if this means we'll see new DF-5 variants or completely new liquid-fueled ICBM? Looking at Russian HGV deployments their liquid-fueled UR-100N can haul only one Avargard HGV.

I'd assume HGV + FOBS payload would require also something with more powerful than DF-41.

Seems somebody did not notice this news posted on different topic almost the same

An integral solid rocket booster developed by China for engineering application completed a test run at the Fourth Academy of China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation on Tuesday.

With a thrust of 500 tonnes, the booster is the most powerful of its kind in the world, China Central Television (CCTV) reported.
The booster, which is 3.5 meters in diameter, uses technologies, such as a high-performance fibrous composite shell and an extra-large nozzle, which puts its overall performance reach at the world's leading level.

in the original Chinese news, also mentioned there are some smaller variants. Based on this kind of monster , it should NOT be very difficult to build a solid fuel based rocket/ICBM , can carry HGV+FOBS payload.

 

[Temstar]

Seems somebody did not notice this news posted on different topic almost the same

An integral solid rocket booster developed by China for engineering application completed a test run at the Fourth Academy of China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation on Tuesday.

With a thrust of 500 tonnes, the booster is the most powerful of its kind in the world, China Central Television (CCTV) reported.
The booster, which is 3.5 meters in diameter, uses technologies, such as a high-performance fibrous composite shell and an extra-large nozzle, which puts its overall performance reach at the world's leading level.

in the original Chinese news, also mentioned there are some smaller variants. Based on this kind of monster , it should NOT be very difficult to build a solid fuel based rocket/ICBM , can carry HGV+FOBS payload.

I noticed and pointed it out in the Chinese Space Program thread. Worth pointing out that carbon fibre casing solid fuel motors, particularly when used as second stage can boost the missile's payload/range by a lot thanks to much lower dry mass compared to steel casing. When used as first stage it will still cause improvement but not to as large of an extent thanks to the rocket equation.