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Overbom

Senior Member
Registered Member
What I was asking was whether there were any new developments.

This gets brought up every few years but when it comes to signing on the dotted line the Argies don't for whatever reason.
Yes I know. This was a new development and the visit of the Chinese delegation took place in May(?).

But yes, it remains to be seen if Argentine will finally pull the trigger. However this visit might imply that at least they are doing something. IMO they should be negotiating now. Argentine opened its mouth and requested a lot of things for the pitiful amount of aircraft they want to buy.

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Miragedriver

Brigadier
He is right. This was also discussed on this forum.

There was also a Chinese delegation who visited Argentine and toured its production facilities in order to see in whay extend they could localise some JF-17 items

AFAIR Argentine wants a mix of JF-17 Block 2 and Block 3 plus Chinese financing by soft loans.

IMO China will agree to these terms as it wants to enter the Latin America arms market and Argentine would be a good showcase for its aerospace products
The post is a regurgitation from two articles. Now whether those articles are complete BS is another matter. There have been studies after studies and attempted purchases and half-ass searches for new aircraft for the past 10 plus years all ending in nothing.

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Fact one: The post says that the Argentine government is forming a joint workgroup to assess the integration of the aircraft into the Air Force. Not the acquisition. This is to assess the logistics and support system needed for possible integration.

Fact two: Argentina has explored in the past (2015) the possibility of coproduction (assembly), but it never came to anything, as always.

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At any rate, I don’t see the purchase of aircraft materializing on several factors:

  • Argentina’s recent budget deficits and tenuous relations with international creditors may limit its ability to afford these purchases. (mentioned in the article) This is the most likely reason why this will not process past workgroup engaging in mental masturbation.
  • I doubt that FMA will be able to negotiate a coproduction (assembly) agreement that was already attempted with talks back in 2015 with no results. This takes us back to this first point....no money.
  • There are still many in the military that are not convinced of the ability of the aircraft or the viability of Chinese manufactured armaments (this is conjecture on my part).
  • Britain will block the sale or assembly of the aircraft due to British components in the aircraft. Most notable one being the Martin Bake ejection system.
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Miragedriver

Brigadier
Yes I know. This was a new development and the visit of the Chinese delegation took place in May(?).

But yes, it remains to be seen if Argentine will finally pull the trigger. However this visit might imply that at least they are doing something. IMO they should be negotiating now. Argentine opened its mouth and requested a lot of things for the pitiful amount of aircraft they want to buy.

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I have low expectations that anything will result from negotiations, workgroup, or official State visits.

The fact is that the Argentine government prefers to spend its money on domestic feel-good issues than on national defense. This is mostly because the current regime were on the receiving end of the Military Juntas response during the “dirty war”. They, therefore, have a distain for anything military. The unfortunate fact is that they (the current government) has permitted the military to deteriorate to a point where it will take decades to rebuild. Argentine does not sit well with international creditors or the IMF
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
After the British veto to the FA-50 sale, only 2 candidates remain. JF-17 vs MiG-35. Is the moment of definition approaching?

After the decommissioning of the Mirage weapons system in 2015, the Argentine Air Force (FAA) lost its supersonic capacity. And with the decommissioning of the A-4ARs expected for 2023 (there are only 5 flying out of the original 30 delivered), Argentina is desperately looking for a new modern weapons system that will allow it to recover its air defense capabilities, which is on the way to extinction.

At this rate, the only way the Air Force will have any combat aircraft is if some nation donates its decommissioned aircraft.

As I mentioned in earlier posts, I don’t think either is likely due to fact that the current government does not want to spend the money. Also, the JF-17 has some British components that would require some modification to the existing aircraft that Argentina will not be able to pay for.

Any thoughts?
 

Overbom

Senior Member
Registered Member
JF-17 vs MiG-35. Is the moment of definition approaching?
I think so. Argentine is in dire need of a modern aircraft. The way things are going they are constantly losing institutional knowledge if they are not flying modern fighter jets.
Also with the decommissioning of their frontline aircraft they urgently need a replacement. They cannot ignore it anymore (unless politicians step in ofc)


And with the decommissioning of the A-4ARs expected for 2023 (there are only 5 flying out of the original 30 delivered), Argentina is desperately looking for a new modern weapons system that will allow it to recover its air defense capabilities, which is on the way to extinction.
Agree


At this rate, the only way the Air Force will have any combat aircraft is if some nation donates its decommissioned aircraft.
Yep. Or who knows, maybe they can try to play some real diplomacy and make Uncle Sam donate some aircraft in order to block the Russians or their rival, the Chinese for making inroads in the region. If they are skillful in realpolitik, I doubt the US will let them fall in China's hand so easily


As I mentioned in earlier posts, I don’t think either is likely due to fact that the current government does not want to spend the money
We are in the dark now. Thats internal politics of Argentine. If Argentine's Air Force cant lobby hard enough to get a replacement then they are truly hopeless.
Yes funding is tight, but I doubt that Argentine wont proceed with buying new aircrafts. The stakes are too high

In fact I would say this decision would be the litmus test for Argentine's Security establishment. If they cant even push for something like this then I would write off their Air Force aspirations and even their greater strategic aspirations.
Ultimately I think that China will make them an attractive offer by using loans with good terms and accounting for Argentine's fiscal situation.

Also, the JF-17 has some British components that would require some modification to the existing aircraft that Argentina will not be able to pay for.
Are you talking about the ejection seat? If yes, then I dont see how China cannot use their own domestic ejection seat. I dont think that thisnkind of change would be significant enough that it could jeopardize a potential sale. Now regarding other components, I dont know about them. I only know that the ejection system could be sanctioned. However you could be right on that, some small foreign components could exist

To conclude, I think the stakes are too high for Argentine to not procure new aircrafts. Couple that with China's desire to enter the Latin America arms market and I could easily envision the Chinese making a very good offer for Argentine. There might be also local production for some items.
Again, this is only based of China's interests that it could make such a sweet offer to Argentine.

We will see. Lets wait for more news, because for now we can only speculate
 

siegecrossbow

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
After the British veto to the FA-50 sale, only 2 candidates remain. JF-17 vs MiG-35. Is the moment of definition approaching?

After the decommissioning of the Mirage weapons system in 2015, the Argentine Air Force (FAA) lost its supersonic capacity. And with the decommissioning of the A-4ARs expected for 2023 (there are only 5 flying out of the original 30 delivered), Argentina is desperately looking for a new modern weapons system that will allow it to recover its air defense capabilities, which is on the way to extinction.

At this rate, the only way the Air Force will have any combat aircraft is if some nation donates its decommissioned aircraft.

As I mentioned in earlier posts, I don’t think either is likely due to fact that the current government does not want to spend the money. Also, the JF-17 has some British components that would require some modification to the existing aircraft that Argentina will not be able to pay for.

Any thoughts?

Only the Martin-Baker ejection seat on the JF-17 is of British origin. The Chinese ejection seat used on the FC-1 is also used on the J-10 and has saved many pilots prior to crashes.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
We are in the dark now. Thats internal politics of Argentine. If Argentine's Air Force cant lobby hard enough to get a replacement then they are truly hopeless.
Yes funding is tight, but I doubt that Argentine wont proceed with buying new aircrafts. The stakes are too high

In fact I would say this decision would be the litmus test for Argentine's Security establishment. If they cant even push for something like this then I would write off their Air Force aspirations and even their greater strategic aspirations.
Ultimately I think that China will make them an attractive offer by using loans with good terms and accounting for Argentine's fiscal situation.
The current regime in power are the same individuals that were persecuted by the military during the "Dirty War" in the mid/late 1970. The Air Force has been lobbying for aircraft but the politician prefers to spend it on social programs or broadcasting soccer games to the masses for votes.
Some the nation will lose all its experienced pilots and maintenance staff to the private sector or other nations. My opinion is that Argentina will begin to lose parts of its territory to Chile in the next decade. It will be the wake up call that comes too late.
 

Paulo R Siqueira

New Member
Registered Member

PHOTO: Gripen F-39E FAB 4101 fighter jet leaving assembly line​


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Per
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September 20, 2021

F-39-Gripen-4101.jpeg


In the photo released by Saab, the series Gripen F-39E FAB 4101 fighter leaving the assembly line. Note that the aircraft is equipped with the Skyward-G IRST (infrared search and tracking) sensor in the nose.

Two Gripen E aircraft are ready and another two units are in the final stages of production in Linköping, Sweden.

The first two aircraft will be transported by ship to Brazil in late November 2021. The other two will come in the first half of 2022.

According to the Aeronautics Social Communication Center (Cecomsaer), after landing in the country, the aircraft will proceed to the Gripen Flight Test Center, in Gavião Peixoto, where FAB, Embraer and Saab test pilots will perform flight tests until the military certificate is ready.

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