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getready

Junior Member
This reminded me of the time when Yukio Hatoyama was PM of Japan from 2009 to 2010. Under his tenure, Japan was more East-oriented. Relations with China and South Korea was warming. It almost looked like for a time, like Japan could at least go on a different path. But unfortunately, his tenure didn't last long. He resigned after threats of a no-confidence vote due to some economic performance expectation issue. Successive PMs after him were hit and miss and they too didn't last long. Until Abe became PM.

Things between China and Japan was going relatively ok until the 2012 Diaoyu Islands dispute. What Japan did was absolutely wrong. But the reaction in China with their intense anti-Japanese protest progressing to rioting was in my opinion not good. If you disagree, just observe your horror and anger at the other anti-China protest-riots in Vietnam, and Myanmar. Its probably what the Japanese public had felt when they saw footages of that protest-riot in China. Additionally, that protest gave much ammunition to the Western and Japanese right-wing media to fear monger about China. Since by that time, Abe was the PM, this was the perfect propaganda coup he needed. Then the rest is history.

In this regard with China-Japan relations. I do feel that China at that time had to take some of the blame for failing to reign in the extremes of Chinese nationalism. Fortunately, China has since then managed to keep its own extreme nationalists in check. We don't see anymore of those crazy hate-filled protest-riots like back in 2012 despite the intense Cold War-like atmosphere of today.

But the past is the past. That opportunity for rapprochement between China and Japan between 2009-2012 was missed. It was mainly Japan's fault. But both sides were not entirely innocent. So now, Japan is as belligerent as ever. Their leaders, fully submitted to the US. The best way now for China to deal with Japan is to build up overwhelming military might to safeguard its economic development. Time is on China's side. Eventually, Japan will have to learn that its place truly belongs in Asia, not in the West. Hopefully they don't choose to learn it the hard way.
Yes I agree with this. I too felt missed opportunities on both sides. Maybe if both countries handled things differently.I am talking about earlier than when the diaoyu isIands dispute flared up.
I rcall it was during the Japanese history textbooks white washing issue and subsequent protests in china. I remember reading a poster in China history forum whom I respected take on this.

That maybe if both countries handled nationalism better. And if you think about it maybe preceding this event too when the potential for Japan and china alliance was not so far fetched.
Before the incident relations seem to be going along fairly well with few bumps. Then the textbooks incident occurred. Chinese was understandably angered by japans attitude towards war crime atrocities on China and attempt to deny them. But Japanese became alarmed and horrified when they saw violence and anti Japan sentiment on TV screens even in shanghai which they thought was the least anti Japan city in China.

The poster mentioned how if both countries looked at the bigger picture relationship would have blossomed to something they would benefit both countries immensely. Economically they complement each other almost perfectly at that time. China needed Japan tecjmh and know how. Japan needed chinas huge market and labour. Politically China could have helped Japan become a normal country, instead of one still weighed down by historical baggage and distrustful neighbours. Plus Japan could have stopped being a US puppet and siding with China and later SK, increase the political and economic clout of East Asia to rival US and Europe.

Alas its not to be. We are still where we are right now. Japan still under US control and actively undermining china. Wat could have been.
 

Kaine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yes I agree with this. I too felt missed opportunities on both sides. Maybe if both countries handled things differently.I am talking about earlier than when the diaoyu isIands dispute flared up.
I rcall it was during the Japanese history textbooks white washing issue and subsequent protests in china. I remember reading a poster in China history forum whom I respected take on this.

That maybe if both countries handled nationalism better. And if you think about it maybe preceding this event too when the potential for Japan and china alliance was not so far fetched.
Before the incident relations seem to be going along fairly well with few bumps. Then the textbooks incident occurred. Chinese was understandably angered by japans attitude towards war crime atrocities on China and attempt to deny them. But Japanese became alarmed and horrified when they saw violence and anti Japan sentiment on TV screens even in shanghai which they thought was the least anti Japan city in China.

The poster mentioned how if both countries looked at the bigger picture relationship would have blossomed to something they would benefit both countries immensely. Economically they complement each other almost perfectly at that time. China needed Japan tecjmh and know how. Japan needed chinas huge market and labour. Politically China could have helped Japan become a normal country, instead of one still weighed down by historical baggage and distrustful neighbours. Plus Japan could have stopped being a US puppet and siding with China and later SK, increase the political and economic clout of East Asia to rival US and Europe.

Alas its not to be. We are still where we are right now. Japan still under US control and actively undermining china. Wat could have been.
I dont think Japan had any choice on this. It is effectively a US puppet (always has been meme..).

Even if they retained a "good" relationship with China, the moment Obama did his Pivot to Asia thing, then the US would order Japan to start changing its behaviour.

And when Trump came, thats when the US started throwing strict orders to its puppets to toe the live against China.
At that moment there was no chance to resist these orders. You see that today, all the puppets are now lining up to obey the US
 

taxiya

Colonel
Registered Member
China folded
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So the No2 of the US State department will meet the Foreign minister Wang Yi. China clearly folded on this as previously they proposed her to meet with the Chinese Vice minister of foreign affairs.

Loss for China as it is now confirming that the Foreign Minister is just a "junior". Expect more countries to demand the same treatment in the future. Dissapointing
In China's diplomatic practice which everybody deals with for the past 7 decades knows very well, the side who ask for a meeting is at the lower standing, or a "bagger". A bagger is always a looser no matter if they got a burger instead of a cookie in the end.

Pay attention to the Chinese diplomatic wording, "at the request/invitation, Chinese FM/President had a meeting with" when the other side is unfriendly. When China is acting on equal or friendly terms, it is "President offered (without request) condolence", "FM made phone call with" without "at request".

Put diplomatc terms aside, why would the strong side (US, Sherman) even bother to insist meeting a Chinese counterpart if they think they are strong?

It is amazing that your mind is so elastic to make a win out of the position of a bagger.
 

Gatekeeper

Brigadier
Registered Member
But, Tianjin is only around 100km from Beijing while Shanghai is over 1,000km away. It's a significant concession I suppose. LOL.

I lament that two of the most powerful countries in the world are getting this petty. Don't know whose fault to start with, but it's rather tragicomic come to think about it.
You dont know who started thus sorry mess? You serious? Any Tom, dick and Harry knows who started all this. Come on where have you been hiding the last ten years !
 

Kaine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Afghan Gov Armed Forces counterattack seems to be stalling. Taliban are now consolidating their gains and they have encircled almost 20 provincial capitals.
Cities under the Afghan Gov control are gradually getting cut out from their supply lines (roads, highways)

We might see cities falling to Taliban's hands when food, water, fuel and other necessities start getting low

IMG_20210722_191750.jpg
 

Temstar

Senior Member
Registered Member
Afghan Gov Armed Forces counterattack seems to be stalling. Taliban are now consolidating their gains and they have encircled almost 20 provincial capitals.
Cities under the Afghan Gov control are gradually getting cut out from their supply lines (roads, highways)


View attachment 74995
ye olde "surround the cities from the countryside" strategy, this round of Afghan civil war is surprisingly similar to Chinese civil war between 1945 and 1949
 

Kaine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Another Japanese invention.
Democracy with Japanese Characteristics

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Prominent commentators have claimed that Twitter Japan, Twitter's business unit in Japan, appears to be trying to protect Prime Minister Suga Yoshihide and the government of Japan. These commentators have seen their accounts suspended and then reactivated after public outcry, with no reason provided by Twitter Japan. In each case, the user's Twitter account was frozen after criticizing the Japanese government.
 

horse

Senior Member
Registered Member
And when Trump came, thats when the US started throwing strict orders to its puppets to toe the live against China.
At that moment there was no chance to resist these orders. You see that today, all the puppets are now lining up to obey the US

I kind of agree.

The containment of China, at least on the economic front, is in full force now, everyone is onboard.

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U.S.-China Goods Trade Booms as If Virus, Tariffs Never Happened
By Eric Martinand James Mayger

July 22, 2021, 1:21 AM UTC


Logically speaking, if the President Trump tariffs against China, is an effort to contain China, then everyone is now onboard with that.

By agreeing to contain China, an American ally pleases Uncle Sam. What they get out of it logically is higher trade volumes with China, just like the result America accomplished.

How can we expect anything less at this point?

Therefore, I think the containment of China is now in full force, at least economically speaking.

Are they being real or pretending, that is up to their spiritual advisors to decide.

:D
 

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