Battle of Red Cliff, the Movie

challenge

Banned Idiot
Romance of the Three Kingdoms is based on the Record of the Three Kingdoms by Zhou Yu. The latter is a historical record. In addition Sima Quan also recorded the events. The "Romance" is basically a novelization, meaning "romanticization" on actual events. The ROTK is actually written in the 14th Century during the Ming Dynasty, more than a millennia after the TK occurred.

As such the original printed text of the novel had illustrations of the characters wearing what is basically Ming vintage armor and Ming vintage weapons. For example the Guan Dao, the weapon which Guan Yu is most famous for, could not have been possibly been invented in the TK period, although such pole arm Daos are common among the elite forces of the Ming army.

Actual TK warfare should have been more like the late Han period, with main troops carrying halberd or "ge", with crossbow troops. Cavalry would be predominant with Cao Cao's forces, the Wei, since the Wei controls the northern borders and have access in recruiting northern nomadic horsemen, plus the grasslands could sustain growth and nurturing of large cavalry armies. The one difference in the TK period over the late Han period is the use of the stirrup, which allowed the use of heavier armored cavalry with melee weapons, basically a spear, basically horse mounted shock troops, aka knights.

What I find very interesting in the battle of Red Cliffs is the Wu's use of amphibious troops or commandos, meaning marines, along with amphibious assault vessels, to set Cao Cao's invasion fleet on fire. The marines were picked and trained to counter sea sickness and to fight in the decks of ships.

the armours and weapons use during TK are identical to Chin's terra cotta warriors and smaller's terra cotta warriors from the han's dynasty,
 

Autumn Child

Junior Member
Some of the battle definitely has the rtk feel to it (especially the turtle formation). For example Guan Yu single handedly killed more than 30 soldiers in close quarter fighting.
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
its really a bad movie, both the fightings and story are awful

Never expected much from a John Woo movie anyway. Just look at 'Hulk' & 'Face Off' etc, nothing but some stunts & special effects really. But one way or another, such movies will score big in the box office.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
John Woo didn't do Hulk. That was Ang Lee of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Sense and Sensibility and Brokeback Mountain.

John Woo is noted for action movies, and I kind of expect him to go that way in this movie. He may try to pamper the "historically accurate" crowd, but cannot escape the need to pamper the RTK/Dynasty Warriors crowd in Hong Kong, Taiwan, S. Korea, Japan and the US. I seem to note that in the trailers, Guan Yu for example, carries his legendary Guandao, although serious historians don't consider this type of weapon to exist in the TK era (has to be at least Song and post-Song Dynasty).
 

hanqiang1011

New Member
well i think i read somewhere that Cao Cao tried to use his ships as bridge to cross the yangtze, and that is why he would tie them up, and Wu just burnt the bridge.

Cao Cao tied up his battleships because his seeming invincible infantry + cavalry troops were all northerners... northen people usually dont know how to swim and being long period on land, they had sea sickness when on board the battleships. Thus he (dont know which one of his military stategtists gave him the idea) ordered all ships to be chained up to create a land-on-sea so that his soldier would not suffer from sick sickness.

The people from the south from Eastern Wu were skilled in swimming and naval warfare because there living areas were around rivers and coastal area. They had gotten used to the sea conditions (monsoon wind, naval fighting...etc).

It was either Zhuge Liang or Zhou Yu that came up with the idea of burning away Cao Cao's ship due to the fact that all ships were chained from ship to ship. Thus when unleashing the tactics of using fire, the ships would burnt from one on till the other spreading rapidly fast due to the wind condition.

As for the movie, it is not historical accurate at all. In actual facts, only Zhuge Liang was sent to Eastern Wu, not the entire Shu Factions character were there.

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The movie is just to dramatised the event.

Nevertheless, IT IS still an epic. It has long overdue that the Chinese film industry had this kind of epic movie. Apart from some of the casts (which I do not know why John wanted Japanese actors in the casts), the battle scenes were great and both Takeshi and Tony Leong are 2 great actors to watch.

:)
 
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challenge

Banned Idiot
I haven't seen the movie yet,aside from kurosawa kagemusha and ran,other interesting "sword opera" was south korea "musa'.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Which Japanese actors? Kaneshiro is no stranger to Chinese movies, having been there in the House of Flying Daggers. He got in because Tony Leung quit the Zhuge Liang role, and then Chow Yun Fat quit the Zhou Yu rule, Tony Leung changed his mind and took over the Zhou Yu role and Kaneshiro, Leung's costar in Flying Daggers, got the Zhuge Liang role. I think it worked to the best, Kaneshiro and Leung seems to have good working chemistry with each other. Woo won't be having to deal with prima donnas as you can expect with big name actors like Chow Yun Fat, who completes the trinity of big ego internationally known Chinese actors, Jet Li and Jackie Chan being the other two.

Nakamura Shido is also no stranger to Chinese movie productions, having played the Japanese fighter in Fearless.
 
Kaneshiro is Taiwanese by nationality and half-Taiwanese half-Japanese by ethnicity.... all my female friends are in love with him like white girls love Orlando Bloom.

He was a badass in Battle of Wits and Warlords.
 
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