Badgering people for classified information

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Phead128

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He is still on Reddit (See
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), posting 1 day ago.

I highly doubt he would self-delete his Reddit account when challenged for classified evidence, because he would just ignore me or stop re-engaging, like any common sense person would do.

He self-deleted his SDF account because he was uncomfortable getting challenged and he wanted "the last word" over some trivial egotistical exchange.... Any normal user would stop re-engaging after the couple posts.
 
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Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
after watching the withdrawal of usa from Afghanistan which was wonderfully carried out, my respect for the intelligence team increased tremendously.

according to my undisclosed sources, this team had been duly promoted. They are assigned to work on the Taiwan planning

now that patch is not around, i am going to miss asking him on the withdrawal plan for taiwan. What a great loss!
Military intelligence had warned the American administration about the possible Taliban offensive before September and Biden decided to ignore it completely, there was no failure of intelligence that warned the US government in advance, it is solely the fault of the entire US civilian administration.

He is still on Reddit (See
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
), posting 1 day ago.

I highly doubt he would self-delete his Reddit account when challenged for classified evidence, because he would just ignore me or stop re-engaging, like any common sense person would do.

He self-deleted his SDF account because he was uncomfortable getting challenged and he wanted "the last word" over some trivial egotistical exchange.... Any normal user would stop re-engaging after the couple posts.
A curiosity, on Reddit, wouldn't he deal with the same type of questioning he had here on a daily basis? Or is this unique to the SDF?

There is nothing wrong with what I have seen from the back-and-forth debate in the J-20 thread, from either side. Patchwork is obviously not obliged to provide any information, confidential or not, to back up his assertions in any legal, moral or even dialectical sense. Other members are right to question his claim because of it, as a lack of evidence would mean that the argument is made from authority, and as far as finding the truth goes nobody has to submit to that line of argument. It is absolutely fine to cite his refusal to provide information as a counter against his claim.

The fact that he has chosen to leave is not something anyone can control, and it would be a stretch to think that anyone could have foreseen this to be an expected outcome of asking him for information. Nobody insulted or personally attacked him - they just weren't buying what he had to say. Personally, it seemed to me that he left because he is annoyed by the pushback he got, which is something many other people would just swallow their pride and get over. There is nothing we can do about that
I agree. I don't know why he chose to voluntarily withdraw when he could simply ignore the questioning. I didn't see anything much in the discussion there, what I saw was some members wanting to impose that anyone should necessarily accept his arguments because he's from IC, that would be simply ridiculous, even more so when here we witness the almost "rule" of posting the sources we are using to support the arguments.
 
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Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
another claim from Patch - US intel and military have immense concern for Chinese EW and J-16D. Cool story ... is this true at all? Many of us suspect so anyway. :O
The PLA expansion in electronic warfare capabilities is significant and I think he is correct in that claim, in terms of volume and overall dynamic capability, China will have a larger fleet of EW dedicated aircraft than the US, making a very simple comparison. , as China commissions dedicated aircraft now (Y-9G) and in the future as well as develops dedicated jets (J-16D - PLAAF)/J-15D - PLANAF) and drones (FH-95), the balance will weigh more towards the PLA side. The US is currently proposing through the US Navy to disable five electronic attack squadrons (VAQs) that operate the Boeing EA-18G Growler electronic attack jet, about a third of the DoD's tactical jet electronic attack force. I doubt they will, but the initiative is being taken.

Dedicated EW has lost relevance in the US given the ability of enemy IADS to be targeted by a kinetic attack at the same distances at which electronic attack is possible. Before, there was no way to hit the enemy IADS from long distances and this required a strong action trying to neutralize, even if temporarily, the enemy's ability to detect, track and engage the attacking force so that it could reach the weapons launch distance. . Today, an F-15EX or even an F-16 can locate and attack the IADS (including launchers, radars, command centers, etc.) at the same distance as an EA-18G electronically attacks it. Likewise, an F-35 can approach and attack it at a much shorter distance. Synthetic aperture radar, GPS-guided weapons and terminal seeker missiles against ground targets and ATA (automatic target acquisition) capabilities make the anti-aircraft system extremely vulnerable today. One weapon that represents a game changer in the “attack planes vs IADS” fight is the AARGM-ER missile, which is expected to come into service next year. In addition, the US is very attentive to what happens in current conflicts, and is certainly moving towards the use of drones to complement the SEAD task. The beginning of a change in the way in which drone-manned aviation works is a present reality.

In short, these 5 squadrons are not useful for the US Navy, they do not work together with naval units, they only support local or allied units. The US Navy doesn't want to pay for something it probably believes should be USAF role, as the USAF operates a squadron of Growlers with the USN, the 390 ECS and the unit's planes are US Navy, however they are used jointly. for USAF personnel to gain experience on the job. But I seriously doubt they'll turn it off. It is an easier task to increase resources for the US Navy than for the JCS to lose that capability until they eventually have viable replacements planned. The proposal to cut five squadrons of E/A-18G Growlers and send these aircraft to AMARG I believe should not go ahead, even more considering the missions that these platforms perform. The E/A-18G is of great importance not only for the US but within NATO as well because there is a lack of aircraft with similar capabilities within the organization, which makes me think further. The big countries like the idea of drones in place and that could happen one day but at the moment there is nothing available with such capabilities and so I hope that the Boeing platform will be maintained even without the five planned squadrons but keeping the aircraft operating.

The USAF has recently incorporated the EPAWSS system into the F-15EX which has "some" electronic attack capability, but is hardly a replacement platform in EW attack capability dedicated 1 for one of the EF111. It also adopts the MALD-J missile capable of long-range interference. And the various AESA radars available on USAF fighter jets provide some interference capability in the higher bands, it is worth noting that even with the current GaA AESA radar, the F-15EX has the longest range radar ever mounted on a fighter, which combined with the EPAWSS electronic defense suite already gives you a highly positive RCS vs radar range ratio that likely makes it superior to every 4/4.5 generation fighter with RCS less than 1 m². If he loses in that relationship it's probably just for the 5th generation.

Still with the USAF, they have the EC-130H Compass Call as a dedicated EA mission so far, but they are already being phased out of service and a variant of the Gulfstream G550(EC-37B) business jet is being developed to take on this role, last month they released images of this new copy. The EC-37B's superior lift capacity and reliability means that just 10 EC-37B aircraft provide EW capacity equivalent to the original fleet of 14 high-demand EC-130H aircraft.

A SEAD attack would include swarms of MALD-J decoy/jamming missiles, electronic attack aircraft (EC-37B), supersonic anti-radar missiles launched below the radar horizon, stand-off stealth munitions (JSOW, SDB, Storm Breaker...), stealth cruise missiles (JASSM, CALCM, JASSM-ER), rapid response ammunition against tactical targets (AARGM-ER), jamming pods (NGJ) among others. If you look at it broadly, US dedicated EW multi-platforms are losing relevance in the same way that aircraft SEAD capabilities are considerably shifting to legacy systems of multi-functional planes. I think what Patch meant was that, but didn't elaborate, but since he dedicated the post to platforms and not platform-inherent systems, my opinion is that he really meant it.
 

BMUFL

Junior Member
Registered Member
A curiosity, on Reddit, wouldn't he deal with the same type of questioning he had here on a daily basis? Or is this unique to the SDF?
I guess you could say reddit is not a discrete forum dedicated to a single purpose like, I don't know, discussion of national defence of an "adversarial state"?

Honestly, I don't know why this thread is still alive. Question have already been answered by Blitzo: no, there will be no rule changes for now.

At this point, we should take this whole thing as lesson-learned and stop soliciting classified informations from subject matter experts, lest we lose another Patch in the future.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
A curiosity, on Reddit, wouldn't he deal with the same type of questioning he had here on a daily basis? Or is this unique to the SDF?
Apparently, nobody at Reddit forums challenge Patchwork to cite original evidence, so therefore, he keeps his Reddit account alive....

Speaks greatly about the quality of Reddit, doesn't it? A giant circlejerk over there. SDF is different.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Apparently, nobody at Reddit forums challenge Patchwork to cite original evidence, so therefore, he keeps his Reddit account alive....

Speaks greatly about the quality of Reddit, doesn't it? A giant circlejerk over there. SDF is different.
I thought Reddit was 100% rigorous because every time I post something not hostile to China is challenged by "source?" "that's not a real source, here's why (long tirade)" "that's bad faith, you are using misleading info". I wonder why? I quit because it was too intellectual, scholarly and rigorous for me.

But I noticed anything pro US like "US actually has alien plasma stealth centuries ahead, trust me bro" the reaction is "USA FUCK YEAH!!"
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
I guess you could say reddit is not a discrete forum dedicated to a single purpose like, I don't know, discussion of national defence of an "adversarial state"?
You realize Patchwork posts extensively in /r/CredibleDefense and /r/LessCredibleDefense subreddit , where over almost half the thread are China-related geopolitics?

And even then, why hasn't he deleted his Reddit account to avoid risking national secrets?

I thought Reddit was 100% rigorous because every time I post something not hostile to China is challenged by "source?" "that's not a real source, here's why (long tirade)" "that's bad faith, you are using misleading info". I wonder why? I quit because it was too intellectual, scholarly and rigorous for me.

But I noticed anything pro US like "US actually has alien plasma stealth centuries ahead, trust me bro" the reaction is "USA FUCK YEAH!!"
He has grown accustomed to Reddit, so this must have been the first time he has been challenge to provide a source.
 

Sinnavuuty

Senior Member
Registered Member
I guess you could say reddit is not a discrete forum dedicated to a single purpose like, I don't know, discussion of national defence of an "adversarial state"?
So it makes sense why he asked for your account to be blocked when confronted. Thanks.
 

Mohsin77

Senior Member
Registered Member
So just to put an end to this pointless back and forth here, I asked Patch about the reddit question you guys are asking. Here's his response:

"I can be "active" on Reddit because nobody there has yet bothered to ask over and over again for classified technical specifications. Some of the rulesets for the subs I partake in are specifically in place to prevent that sort of thing as well. Tempest also sent me a screenshot of someone saying they "highly doubt" I would delete my R*ddit account if challenged for classified evidence, which I thought was funny because I have already deleted my reddit account once lol.

I'm not sure what people are still arguing about. They're free to not accept my position on the F-22 matter, I made as much clear, but it should be obvious why actively trying to contest it, with zero access to any of the data that would let one do so in good faith, might not go over well. At this point it just seems a bit petty to keep going on and on about it from either side."



Anyways, like I said, there's nothing to be done about this issue. Move on folks.
 
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