Anti-Ship missile

subsonic AShM has a huge problem in that it's much harder to penetrate the opposing Air defense when your missile is that much slower than the missile chasing you. Even if it has the greatest intelligence, it will be hard for a missile travelling at mach 0.9 to evade a mach 4.0 missile. I don't question the accuracy of Harpoon, but its speed definitely makes it easier to get intercepted.

tphuang said:

subsonic AShM has a huge problem in that it's much harder to penetrate the opposing Air defense when your missile is that much slower than the missile chasing you. Even if it has the greatest intelligence, it will be hard for a missile travelling at mach 0.9 to evade a mach 4.0 missile. I don't question the accuracy of Harpoon, but its speed definitely makes it easier to get intercepted.

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That's true. You're correct that a faster missile is harder to intercept. That's the only area that Moskit outclasses Harpoon. But Harpoon can easily overcome that by attacking by various modes and various attack axis's. Plus when in low flight profile, the defending ship really doesn't have alot of time to react. And even for higher flight profiles, Harpoon attacks can be supplemented with various electronic warfare means to help them get through defense screens. But that topic obviously goes beyond the scope of this thread.

Sea Dog said:

That's true. You're correct that a faster missile is harder to intercept. That's the only area that Moskit outclasses Harpoon. But Harpoon can easily overcome that by attacking by various modes and various attack axis's. Plus when in low flight profile, the defending ship really doesn't have alot of time to react. And even for higher flight profiles, Harpoon attacks can be supplemented with various electronic warfare means to help them get through defense screens. But that topic obviously goes beyond the scope of this thread.

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I'm not sure about Moskit, but most of the Chinese AShMs are travelling in low flight profile (30m above sea level). I don't want to get further into it, but even with an intelligent planned route, it is hard for the prey to get away from a predator that travels 5 times its speed.

the yj-85 and 62 are both capable of performing similar manuvers to the harpoon, especially since they are actully programmed to dive to the water line.

MIGleader said:

its one thing to make a supersonic missle, but its another to put good range on it and put a warhead on. why isnt the u.s making a ashm with the coyote? seems like it has good performance.

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There is more to a missiles effectiveness than speed.
Harpoon has superior guidance than other Anti-ship missiles.

IDonT said:

There is more to a missiles effectiveness than speed.
Harpoon has superior guidance than other Anti-ship missiles.

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proof? no one knows actully.as long as the missle can hit the ship in a critical area, it doesnt really matter. so why no put the harpoons guidance on a coyote?

MIGleader said:

proof? no one knows actully.as long as the missle can hit the ship in a critical area, it doesnt really matter. so why no put the harpoons guidance on a coyote?

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Why?

Its not like the US has to break an airdefence as formidable as Aegis.

8 super hornets carrying 4 harpoons each, and protected by 4 Super hornets flying CAP, is 32 harpoons. In all likely hood, these harpoons will arrive at the same time. Does China have anything to shoot them down?

Oh one more thing, there is also a Prowler that is Jamming PLAN's radar and fire control, and 2 SEAD Super hornets firing anti-radiation missiles at the ship. Do you still need a Mach 3 missile?

IDonT said:

Why?

Its not like the US has to break an airdefence as formidable as Aegis.

8 super hornets carrying 4 harpoons each, and protected by 4 Super hornets flying CAP, is 32 harpoons. In all likely hood, these harpoons will arrive at the same time. Does China have anything to shoot them down?

Oh one more thing, there is also a Prowler that is Jamming PLAN's radar and fire control, and 2 SEAD Super hornets firing anti-radiation missiles at the ship. Do you still need a Mach 3 missile?

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yes, china has ak-630s, khashtans, type 730s, grizzlies, s-300s, and hq-9s to shoot em down. the yj-sieries also have subsonic varients, and lets not forget china has jammers too. since the chinese stole aegis, the u.s are going to have a tough time.

MIGleader said:

since the chinese stole aegis, the u.s are going to have a tough time.

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Stealing AEGIS and making it work are two entirely different things.

Those Prowlers are VERY powerful. If they get in range, most displays are going to be a lot of white fuzz on the screens.

Still...it would be no cake walk at all. You NEVER underestimate a determined and capable foe, on either side.

Let's all hope and pray it never comes to that.

MIGleader said:

yes, china has ak-630s, khashtans, type 730s, grizzlies, s-300s, and hq-9s to shoot em down. the yj-sieries also have subsonic varients, and lets not forget china has jammers too. since the chinese stole aegis, the u.s are going to have a tough time.

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Ok, try this.

Prowlers Jam the air search and fire control radars of PLAN destroyers. They are blind. At the same time, F-18 gets in range and fire anti-radiation missiles to destroy the said radars. Behind these are the 32 harpoons that will arrive simultaneously from all axis. The result, all PLAN destroyers are either mission killed, mobility killed, or sunk. The second wave carrying 2,000 lb JDAMS will finished the fleet.

IF china stole Aegis, wouldn't the US know how to counter their own systems. The Aegis that CHINA stole are probably the very early models. US navy is now in baseline 7.0 Aegis.

The point I'm trying to make is that the US does not employ 1 super weapon. It is a combined arms team. Each weapon system is very good by itself, but other countries have a comparable system that can rival or even surpassed it. But if you combined one weapon system as part of a whole, it become almost invulnerable.

The Russians and now Chinese tactic of defeating a Carrier group involves one super weapon, usually a high speed anti-ship missiles or a high speed torpedo. Once neutralized, it becomes useless. US tactic involves using many different types of weapons and support systems. In other words, if you build a missile that is fast enough, maybe the US can't intercept it. American thinking goes in the line of: "if attack the enemy at multiple levels while blinding him at the same time, they won't have a chance.