All is not what it seems within China's High Speed Rail development.

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Well according to this researcher, In the main China's rail protection system is not up to date.
well they've got themselves to blame as one Mainland critic said on another forum

"The PR skills of the Ministry are non-existent. And so is the professionalism of the press. The former keeps dodging responsibility and coming up with ridiculous comments.(to which Ill add actions, refer sacking) The latter keeps bashing and blaming without solid investigation or research."

People should refrain from jumping on the gun and pointing the finger Lets wait until the investigation finish.They did recover the black box and promise an open investigation. Anyway let distinguished between operation error and equipment malfunction .

The first is the responsibility of Operation company but equipment failure under normal usage is still the responsibility of equipment supplier . The same principle apply why car companies paid indemnity to the crash accident, if the failure can be traced to design defect. Sad as it may be but you just can't cover all contingencies Design is compromise between economy and safety. The Japan nuclear accident clearly prove that. If human negligence is the cause head should rolled


(BEIJING) A deadly train crash in China over the weekend has raised concerns about the safety of the country's fast-growing rail network and threatens to undermine its plans to export high-speed train technology.

The concerns were enough to push share prices down in Chinese rail companies by as much as 16 per cent.

China sacked three senior railway officials a day after Saturday's collision between two high-speed trains that killed at least 36 people in the country's worst rail disaster since 2008.

It has been working for years to develop a high-speed rail network to rival Japan's famed bullet trains and use the technology it has acquired or developed to sell its own trains abroad.

The country has one of the highest-density rail systems in the world, according to Michael Komesaroff of Urandaline Investments in Australia.

'The Chinese are running at least two times the level of anyone else in the world. That means signalling and systems management become more critical,' Mr Komesaroff said.

A spokesman for China South Locomotive, which built both trains in a joint venture with Canada's Bombardier, said signalling operations were to blame for the crash.

'The quality of the trains is fine. Neither had any accidents previously. It's the signalling system that went wrong,' he said.

A spokesman for General Electric in the United States said the company supplied the signalling equipment on the line involved in Saturday's crash, but said it did not provide 'vital' equipment.

The crash is a further blow to China's high-speed railway ambitions after the country's railway minister was sacked earlier this year and became the subject of a disciplinary investigation over corruption.

'The markets were concerned about possible slowdown of high-speed railway construction when the railway minister was sacked,' said Du Jun, an analyst with Shanghai Securities.

'The accident might have some impact on export of the high-speed rail as overseas clients would obviously have doubts on quality and safety issues. However, it's a bit too early to draw any conclusions before they find out what exactly went wrong.'

Initial reports from China were that the trains involved in the collision were made with Chinese technology, but Chinese media reports yesterday laid the blame on 'foreign technology.'

China has been on a building boom to expand its national rail network and turn it into a global leader. Under Beijing's five-year plan to 2015, the country will invest between 3.6 trillion and 4 trillion yuan (S$674-749 billion) in its rail sector.

The effort has not been without controversy as China's rail partners from Japan and Europe have often accused it of strong-arm tactics that force them to turn over technology to win contracts only to see China use that technology against them in bidding for other rail deals outside the country.

China has used a number of suppliers for trains and for the signalling equipment used to guide them.

Its foreign suppliers include companies like General Electric, Bombardier, Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Alstom and others\. \-- Reuters
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Lightning struck our apartment building on Sunday morning knocking out our elevator for several hours.

To me the bottom line in this accident is 38 people are dead and 200 injured. Very sad. How it happened will be investigated by the authorities.I'm sure any criminal negligence will be dealt with.

And let us all remember accidents do happen. It is inevitable.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Love how the ghouls have come out gnawing on the bones of the dead.

Some people believe that sweeping everything under the carpet (or should I say burying it in the earth) and saying "move along, citizen, nothing to see here" is not the best way to respond after an accident. People should not die in vain, so lessons have to be learnt. Public discussion plays an important role in this to put pressure on the authorities not to shirk from their responsibilities.

If you're complaining about foreigners, we live in a global age. People are free to comment on whatever they like. You also have a choice as to whether or not you read other people's comments. No one forces you to sit down and read comments from people all over the world about China.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Some people believe that sweeping everything under the carpet (or should I say burying it in the earth) and saying "move along, citizen, nothing to see here" is not the best way to respond after an accident. People should not die in vain, so lessons have to be learnt. Public discussion plays an important role in this to put pressure on the authorities not to shirk from their responsibilities.

If you're complaining about foreigners, we live in a global age. People are free to comment on whatever they like. You also have a choice as to whether or not you read other people's comments. No one forces you to sit down and read comments from people all over the world about China.

If this had happened in the West, the press would have waited for an investigation to conclude before making any accusations of negligence.

However, because this involves China, accusations of shoddy equipment malfunctions spring up almost as soon as the accident occurred. All of the articles I've read that blames the accident on poor equipment quality and China's "break-neck pace" of HSR development. All without a single shred of evidence to back up their claims.

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China has paid huge costs for its "efficient" high-speed growth in the past three decades, such as imbalanced development, environmental pollution and social injustice. More alarmingly, "success" has firmly implanted the idea that speed is everything in the minds of Chinese officials. Even Beijing has adopted speedy development as the yardstick to measure an official's performance.

From this perspective, it is far from enough for the Chinese government to apologize to the victims of Saturday's train accident and their families. The blood of the passengers killed and injured will not have been shed in vain only if the government draws a sincere lesson from the accident and conducts a thorough review of, in particular, its plan to build a nationwide high-speed rail network at "big leap forward" pace, and in general, its policy to chase after high-speed economic growth.


Baseless accusation of tech theft and outright lies about level of usage:

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Within the Communist Party of China and the Chinese government, the nation's high-speed railway network construction has been called a project to save face since it was completed with its own "independently developed" technology.
Ticket sales have also been sluggish. Because of that, people began to cast doubts on the railway network construction project that ignored the actual public demand for the service. The total project deficit has swelled to 2 trillion yuan.

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“China has been investing to build up its rail network, but the problem is they’ve been doing it too fast,” said Byun Sung Jin, an analyst at Mirae Asset Securities Co. in Seoul. “Like a balloon, if you expand too much, it’s bound to explode.”

Yet another claim unfounded on any factual evidence.
 

zoom

Junior Member
If this had happened in the West, the press would have waited for an investigation to conclude before making any accusations of negligence.
I've never known the press to wait for anything,this is a ridiculous statement.
 

i.e.

Senior Member
I've never known the press to wait for anything,this is a ridiculous statement.

I have seen big name companies (can't disclose which one, obviously)
that is undergoing a NTSB investigation for an accident. on the inside.

and press is usually muted on the cause.

because 1) they put a crack down on all info leading out. that's include NTSB and all the authorities.
2) NTSB usually puts careful consideration on how much information to release, and they will never release any premature stuff, and final causual report is going to be 1.5 years (!) after
3) crisis management, all focus on families etc etc.

and press is usually muted.
obviously it was not an accident of this scale and public profile.

but starting to generalize the moment after accident happend when even basic facts are not known yet, like pointing fingers to the general pace of development etc, is, something they teach against in journalism school. speculation is fine when you do it in private conversations, but a whole level of standard must be applied when you want to print something.


and while we are at it,

I am speculating that, one of the cause is that when couple of weeks ago when all the delays start to happening on the Shanghai-Beijiing Line, tremendous public pressure was put on Railways minstry to keep up the on-time performance, much of it drummed up by the press, thus the pressure trickled down to the operational level which bypassed some basic saftey firewalls.
the public, including press, also has a level of responsibility!.
 

solarz

Brigadier
I've never known the press to wait for anything,this is a ridiculous statement.

Oh really?

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Both companies are being investigated for alleged manslaughter in connection with the crash.

Pilot's unions and some of the victims' families have accused the airline of reacting too slowly to safety warnings but both Airbus and Air France insist they reacted properly.

"We are waiting for more information on the circumstances of the accident, how it took place and above all the technical state of the aircraft during the flight's last moments," said Robert Soulas of a victims' families association.
 

i.e.

Senior Member
Oh really?

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with out going into the boring details that no layman will understand.

Airbus will have to update some of their critical flight control software, which is flying, today, on thousands of jets, at this very moment as we speak.

even the cert authorities are at some level of blames here. and they are modifying their cert process to reflect that.

the cause and details are pretty technical, but the french accident investigation authority already has updated a factual finding based on black boxs that was recently recovered, which for the technical people in the field is enough to understand what are the deficiencies.
here
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read it and see if you can understand it.

people are human but they learn, hopfeully.
 

zoom

Junior Member
These stories don't relate to your comment i responded to. These are investigators taking their time to inform not the press and the bold type above is from
said Robert Soulas of a victims' families association.
again not the press as i understand it.Now ' i.e.' talks about the press being muted. I can agree that under political.corporate and legal pressure they can be gagged but that wasn't the essence of your original comment i don't think.I understood it to be accusing the western press of not speculating until all the facts are known which in my experience just does not happen anywhere in the world.
 

i.e.

Senior Member
bottom line is

on any sort of this accident,
people already died,
so the point is really to learn as much as possible and evolve your processes so that you can prevent these things from happening again.

getting emotional and blame the whole system rarely helps.

it even is counter productive as you will disincentivise people involved to be more open about the information.

that's also why airline makers usually don't get sued in US if an accident happen.
 
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