Aircraft Carriers


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joshuatree

Captain
NATO didn't want CV-67, even for free.

- I agree with Jeff Head. The USN is known to reduce # years from a hull life- wether it's for getting $ for new CVNs and/or safety & other reasons is beyond me. I bet SLEPs can be done more than once on any CV/N!
I assume you mean NATO wouldn't be interested in the CV-67 even if it was offered for free when you say "didn't"? I don't recall the CV-67 actually being offered to anyone. :confused:

Actually, I don't even know why the USN bothers with putting any decommissioned carriers into inactive storage. Don't recall any modern-day inactive carriers ever being brought back into service.
 

BLUEJACKET

Banned Idiot
Yes, it was actualy offered to them and they refused- it will co$t as much or less to build new CV than to fix an old one, that may serve for only 15-20 years afterwards, before another SLEP.
 

Obi Wan Russell

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Here's my first attempt at a Forrestal class LPH conversion,- the MEGA LPH! A multi role Disaster relief/ Commando carrier (I like that term more than LPH, as a Landing Platform Helicopter sounds like a simple structure you'd find welded to the side of an Oil Rig!), I've gone for commercial standard diesels as that reduces the number of engineering staff to 30 or 40!
 

Scratch

Captain
joshuatree:
... But it's like the chicken and egg argument, if they don't have access to any carriers, why would they have carrier capable aircraft? So assuming if NATO nations can overcome the logistics of who shoulders the cost and how will the carrier be operated, it would actually be a very cheap option for nations that don't have carrier experience to gain carrier experience. And on the other end of the spectrum, it would help alleviate the US shouldering all the heavy work when it comes to carrier missions. Nations like Poland are acquiring F-16s and planning to acquire F-35s. Don't see why they can't simply acquire a squadron of the F-35Cs. Norway is also planning to acquire F-35s.
Well, yes the theoretical idea would be great. But several coutries buying a small numeber of CV aircraft just to make a part of one CVW probably isn't economical. Perhaps if all AFs buying F-35s would go with the C completely. (B would perhaps not be an option due to range limitations they have to face in normal AF operations.) And then there's the logistics. Every country certifying some pilots for an operation that might not come often (all NATO countries would have to agree on the use of the CVN) is an issue.
Once again, the idea would be nice, but burocratics might stand in it's way.

Obi Wan Russell:
... the MEGA LPH ...
Would make an awesome asset. But it would have to rely on heavy escorts.
Such a ship is a perfect target since you would loose a lot of equipment with it, and it can't really defend itself (no fighters on board).
I guess you could as well use 2-3 "standart" LPHs wich offer the same amount of troop strength. But these would give you more alternatives since you can disperse them and therefore come from different directions.
Then again as some kind of an off-shore command base, auxilliary/replenishment/support vessel it might have it's value.
 

Obi Wan Russell

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The point of the excercise is to find a use for existing decommissioned (or soon to be decommissioned) CVs, and as such should be viewed as an additional asset rather than a replacement for other ship types. In much the same way when the Iowa class BBs were brought back in the eighties they didn't replace anything, they brought additional capabilities to the table.
 

bd popeye

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First off ..Obi Wan I want to start a Navy and I'm hiring you as head engineer!:D Excellent idea....simply excellent. Please correct me if I'm wrong.. you would store the LCAC's in the hangar on some sort of roll away device with the aircraft "lifts" rigged to lower them to the sea? Correct? What sort of air wing and what would be the capacity of the hospital? Thanks. Great job! Please elaborate later!

Speaking of ships like the Forrestal as being too stripped down to be worthy of refurbishment. Wouldn't that actually be ideal? I assume carriers end their useful lives not because the hull has deteriorated to unserviceable levels, but usually it is the equipment on board that has been used up. To refurbish the equipment or to install new equipment would not justify the costs vs building a new carrier. So if one were to refurbish an ex-carrier for other uses, wouldn't it being stripped down actually be better? You would want to install new propulsion systems anyway to simplify and reduce crew requirements. An ex-carrier that would be refurbished for second line military duty or civilian use would have no need for four shafts and associated machinery rooms.
Stripped down is not better. Because I know all sorts of important equipment has been removed. Pumps, electrical motors, fire equipment, sensors etc, etc. A lot of that equipment is needed to operate the ship. Holes have been cut between the decks to remove some of this equipment. No offense to you but unless you have ever visited or,like me, served on a CV you have no idea myriad the inner hull of a CV is. It is so vast I garauntee it may well boggle someones mind.
 

Obi Wan Russell

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First off ..Obi Wan I want to start a Navy and I'm hiring you as head engineer!:D Excellent idea....simply excellent. Please correct me if I'm wrong.. you would store the LCAC's in the hangar on some sort of roll away device with the aircraft "lifts" rigged to lower them to the sea? Correct? What sort of air wing and what would be the capacity of the hospital? Thanks. Great job! Please elaborate later!



Stripped down is not better. Because I know all sorts of important equipment has been removed. Pumps, electrical motors, fire equipment, sensors etc, etc. A lot of that equipment is needed to operate the ship. Holes have been cut between the decks to remove some of this equipment. No offense to you but unless you have ever visited or,like me, served on a CV you have no idea myriad the inner hull of a CV is. It is so vast I garauntee it may well boggle someones mind.
Lowering the Landing craft to the sea seems to me to be a straightforward proposition... if they are stored on the hangar deck on wheeled cradles (or on rails set in the hangar floor) then moved out UNDER the aft lift(s) where they attach to points under the lift platform and thus can be lowered to sea level. This seems a logical low cost way to get round the ship not having a well deck aft. If the lifts can carry a couple of tomcats (and I wouldn't want to drop one of them on my foot... That's my dad's way of implying something is heavy!) then they should be able to handle landing craft underslung beneath them.

With the engineering crew reduced to say a hundred (commercial diesels don't need even thart many, the rest are for ships systems), a ship designed for 5000+ crew will have a lot of spare berths/space. Some can be used for hospital wards, some for emergency personnel accomodation (although civilians would not accept the same standards as Navy personnel, there is still room for a lot) and some will obviously be used for the crews of the rescue helos. A portion of the ship will also be used for refugee processing (in conjunction with the hospital facilities) and a comprehensive comunication suite will be installed to co ordinate rescue efforts, controlled from the CIC.
 

Jeff Head

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Lowering the Landing craft to the sea seems to me to be a straightforward proposition... if they are stored on the hangar deck on wheeled cradles (or on rails set in the hangar floor) then moved out UNDER the aft lift(s) where they attach to points under the lift platform and thus can be lowered to sea level.
bd popeye said:
Excellent idea....simply excellent. Please correct me if I'm wrong.. you would store the LCAC's in the hangar on some sort of roll away device with the aircraft "lifts" rigged to lower them to the sea? Correct?
Ok...here's an even more radical, futuristic design that I posted on another thread in response to an enquiry about my fictional novel, "Dragon's Fury - World War against America and the West".

I used this in the latter stages of the war depicted in that novel. A whole Phibron would appear from "nowhere" off an enemy coast.

A submersible LPH, nuclear powered, 40,000 tons. Carriers a small squardon of 4-6 JSFs, a small squardon of 4-6 Attack helos, two AEW V-22 variants, 2 ASW V-22 variants, and 8 assault V-22's or large assault helos, two elevators. Also has four inset well decks for four LCAC, one for each well deck. PARS, 2 X 24 cell VLS aft.

Clearly, the launch rate on the attack aircraft is limited by the single STO run, but in VTOL mode they can launch three at a time. In addition, the operations in particular sea states would be impacted. But that would be offset in a big way by its ability to show up anywhere, anytime, unannounced and unseen where needed as long as the sea conditions allowed.

All of the antennae, railings, etc. are retractable.



Later in that fictional tale, a SSCVN variant was created that had two luanch positons no well decks, and carried 36 attack, AEW, and ASW aircraft exclusively. I never made a pic of that, but will do so in the next week to depict it.
 

Obi Wan Russell

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Ok...here's an even more radical, futuristic design that I posted on another thread in response to an enquiry about my fictional novel, "Dragon's Fury - World War against America and the West".

I used this in the latter stages of the war depicted in that novel. A whole Phibron would appear from "nowhere" off an enemy coast.

A submersible LPH, nuclear powered, 40,000 tons. Carriers a small squardon of 4-6 JSFs, a small squardon of 4-6 Attack helos, two AEW V-22 variants, 2 ASW V-22 variants, and 8 assault V-22's or large assault helos, two elevators. Also has four inset well decks for four LCAC, one for each well deck. PARS, 2 X 24 cell VLS aft.

Clearly, the launch rate on the attack aircraft is limited by the single STO run, but in VTOL mode they can launch three at a time. In addition, the operations in particular sea states would be impacted. But that would be offset in a big way by its ability to show up anywhere, anytime, unannounced and unseen where needed as long as the sea conditions allowed.

All of the antennae, railings, etc. are retractable.

[qimg]http://www.jeffhead.com/dragonsfury/USN-SSLPHN.jpg[/qimg]

Later in that fictional tale, a SSCVN variant was created that had two luanch positons no well decks, and carried 36 attack, AEW, and ASW aircraft exclusively. I never made a pic of that, but will do so in the next week to depict it.
Cool! I'll take three! Can you deliver them a week Tuesday?:D

My only concern would be how watertight could the lifts be made as this may be a restricting factor on diving depth, but assuming this is soluble this vessel would be a much more frightening prospect than a Typhoon class SSBN, simply because it would be used!
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
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Intresting Jeff..That ship better have some excellent sound dampening devices!..Nice Idea!
 
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