Aircraft Carriers III
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I am just asking for a link. Report from Janes dated June said they weren’t sure.
Not wrong just a different focus.
As pointed out by @Intrepid The ramp take up deck space and is an obstacle during non flight ops.
The ramp is basically useless for rotary wing aviation as they are designed to use the lift generated by the rotors to take off this is why the USN Gator navy doesn’t have them. They want to be able to launch more CH53K, UH1Y, AH1Z and SH60. With F35B as a secondary role. In some cases they don’t even have them aboard
Ramps are only useful if the aircraft have wings to generate lift. Harriers, Yak 38, Yak121 and F35B all use rolling take offs as although capable of vertical takeoff that places limits on the payload and range.
I have never seen nor heard of V22 Osprey trying a ramp but they can do a rolling take off if overloaded. In theory they could as should V247 or V280.
The ramp adds surface area by increasing vertical length well keeping the same horizontal length of the bow. The advantage can be matched by a longer rolling take off. But at the cost of a longer length of deck being used. They also cost aircraft storage space.
The JSDF Izumo I think is even more focused on the sea control doctrine it’s original intent was an ASW helicopter carrier. The addition of F35B on top of that means it’s more suitable to escort and air defense of a naval force.
They are not wrong. We know for sure that Japanese a thorough investigation in what manner they want to perate the Izumo class carriers - if I remember it well the study showed like 5 or 4 main scenraios of operating various siezed airwings. They for sure got the informations shared from US (I think that they were interested the most in America class LHA's and especially lessons learned there which will show up on LHA-8), UK and Italy (Queen Elizabeth, Cavour and Trieste). The latter use ramp, US doesn't operate this way. I think that JMSDF only chose the design as it fits their needs for a number of reasons that me might think of and some that we probably aren't aware right now.
It's a fresh case as you can see, from a few days ago.
No space is lost on a carrier, it's all useful at some point. Those aircraft aren't trapped,, they are spotted ready for use. You picked a tight angle when the deck is quite wide there and they have ample room to retrieve any aircraft they need to. You could equally argue the catapults on a CVN are just in the way also, better rip them out! The ski Jump is here to stay, get used to it, and it's better to have it than not.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Thank you, I just hadn’t seen that yet. It’s logical. And if they did feel the need for a ramp it would probably be better suited on a larger Carrier anyway.
Thanks for the link, I did wonder if they are concerned that the increased amount of payload the F-35B can take off with with the ramp would make people think of it as offensive rather than the Japanese insisting it’s defensive.
With the ramp and the rolling landing the British F-35B will be getting the most out of the airframe.
The whole idea of the ramp is to increase maximum takeoff weight. Thus making aircraft actually useful.
In the case of the Harrier it was essential unless all you wanted to carry was a couple of short range IR missiles as a payload on an aircraft which had no radar.
The later Harriers built with composites could carry more payload and the F-35B can carry even more. But the ramp is still useful.
The QE class would have been better off with a catapult though.
There are always part of the flight deck that are restricted by other parts of the ships design, there are areas of CATOBAR carriers decks that mean that movement from aircraft on that part of the deck is difficult. It's a constant ballet of moving aircraft to where they need to be for planned operations. That section of the parking area on QE Class is known as 'The Graveyard' on their deck maps. It's likely that aircraft parked there are u/s, undergoing maintenance or not planned to be used on operations immediately. All aircraft carriers will have similar areas on their deck, or indeed in their hangar.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
It’s a question of intended role. The US has fleet carriers Nimitz and Ford class ships.
power projection machines that can raid deep into enemy airspace. With LHA and LHD serving to support and launch amphibious assault. The British prefer “Light”carriers more intended to escort but capable of Amphibious air assault. As such they moved away from cats in favor of aircraft that could SVTOL. They wanted a platform for defense of their operations, base for air assault and ASW.
The Japanese classes the Izumo as a ASW destroyer this is often of course dismissed yet it has a seed of truth. The F35B on the deck are being added not to extend their range and deep strike but to intercept and protect a naval force. The flat deck is fine for close range operations. Which is where F35B will be operating primarily off LHA and Izumo class.