Aircraft Carriers III

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
The Sea Harriers were built mostly in the 80s and 90s, not the 60s. They were technologically as advanced as any fighter in the world at the time, their radar, the Blue Vixen, was used as the basis for the Typhoon's radar. the last Sea Harrier rolled off the production line just seven years before it was withdrawn. The Harrier IIs were similar vintage, and had just completed a £1Billion upgrade to GR9/9A standard when withdrawn. It had been planned to keep the force in service until at least 2018 when the phased replacement by F-35Bs would happen. The airframes were not Old, Worn out or Obsolete by any measure. They were fully functional and up to date ready to serve throughout the 2010s. They were sacrificed to fund tax cuts for political donors to the Tory party.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
The Sea Harriers were built mostly in the 80s and 90s, not the 60s. They were technologically as advanced as any fighter in the world at the time, their radar, the Blue Vixen, was used as the basis for the Typhoon's radar. the last Sea Harrier rolled off the production line just seven years before it was withdrawn. The Harrier IIs were similar vintage, and had just completed a £1Billion upgrade to GR9/9A standard when withdrawn. It had been planned to keep the force in service until at least 2018 when the phased replacement by F-35Bs would happen. The airframes were not Old, Worn out or Obsolete by any measure. They were fully functional and up to date ready to serve throughout the 2010s. They were sacrificed to fund tax cuts for political donors to the Tory party.
First Though I was wrong on the dates not that wrong Sea Harrier FRS1 then upgraded to F(A)2 was built in the 70s with and early 80s. The later was the addition of Blue Vixen.
Those were retired in 2006 for the RN replaced by Harrier II GR 7/GR9 which was built by BAE in Joint with McDonald Douglas who later became part of Boeing. Those were RAF but then transferred to the Navy to replace the Sea Harrier. Those were the ones retired in 2011. Even had it continued it was still only to 2018. Meaning either another reset but with F35 coming would it have been worth it?
As to Old that still would have made them 30 years old. Not some aircraft can take that age without an issue Harrier was also a light weight built to be as light as possible . Obsolete they were one of the last military aircraft built without fly by wire add in their unique VSTOL capabilities on top of this and they became notorious. Father although there was a contract with Quinetiq to SLEP the Harriers the work wasn’t finished the decision was made as they were were working on some planes not after completing it.
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When F35 emerged it more than rendered Harriers Obsolete. By its fly by wire flight control combined with its combined thrust vector lift fan system, Super sonic flight, and larger payload. That’s not even mentioning the fifth gen aspects.
Once the RN moved to retire the Invincible class carriers it also would have struck a blow as to their operations basically rendering Fleet Air Arms fighter force an RAF arm.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
The RN didn't move to retire the Invincible class, that was the Government. They make the decisions, the armed forces then have to 'clear up the mess'. The RN had planned to retain Ark Royal and Illustrious long enough to 'hand over' their core crews to the QECs as they commissioned, obviating the need to send RN crews to serve with the USN and gain and retain experience in deck operations that way. Likewise the Harrier pilots had to be embedded with USN and USMC sqns to keep current. The RN plan was a sensible one, the Government screwed it up.
The high attrition rate for the Harrier was mostly early in it's career, a situation improved over time. with experience and training. When first introduced to USMC service as the AV-8A, the corps posted only qualified test pilots to the first sqns. They reported the aircraft as very easy to fly, but then they were the cream of the crop. The USMC misunderstood their reports and began posting ordinary pilots, and in some cases former helicopter pilots, figuring they'd be good with an aircraft that could hover. Indeed they were, but they had been streamed to helicopters in the first place because they weren't good enough for fast jet ops at 500knots, and so many of them flew into mountainsides in training. THAT's where the high attrition rate reputation mainly stems from. In later years it was as good as many platforms still in service. It certainly wasn't as bad as the F-104 Starfighter. As for the age of the airframes. they were sti;; on average ten years younger than the USAFs F-15C Eagles which are STILL flying in the front line and will for many years yet.
Fly by Wire is just a different way of doing things in an aeroplane, nice to have and certainly with advantages, but not the only way of doing things. Russian aircraft like the Mig-29 family and the SU-27 Family do not have fly by wire and seem to manage ok...
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Most older MiG 29 have already long been retired due to the Russian economic failures leading to extensive maintenance issues that basically left huge numbers as boneyard birds. SU27 was Russia’s first Fly by wire fighter and newer Fulcrums also got that technology.
F15C is being retired from service to be replaced by F15EX due to reaching the end of its operational structural life span, and Not having enough F22 procured to replace them.
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
F15C is being retired from service to be replaced by F15EX due to reaching the end of its operational structural life span, and Not having enough F22 procured to replace them.
F-15Cs are in many cases being extended to 2040... They are rebuilding existing aircraft rather than building new examples.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
F-15Cs are in many cases being extended to 2040... They are rebuilding existing aircraft rather than building new examples.
No, They tried to however after the proposed F15C2040 newer reports surfaced that the structure was aging more than expected and that it would age out by the end of this decade which is why the push for F15EX. The first of which have already been delivered.
The issues being the Longeron, aged wiring and the wing structure. Life extension basically costing as much as a new aircraft.
 
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