Aircraft Carriers III

azesus

Junior Member
Registered Member
Again you bring Jet Blast Deflectors into the argument when you know they are not required for the F-35B. No carrier designed or intended to operate the 'B has them nor are there any plans to retrofit them. Japan cannot 'hold Daddy's hand' forever, they have to stand on their own two feet and they realise this for the longer term. In the Asia Pacific region they all tend to play the long game. These ships aren't 'mini carriers' at 27000 tonnes and 800+feet long they are definitely in the mid range and on a par with WW2 Fleet Carriers. They may only operate a single sqn of F-35Bs but 12 of them are more than a match for the 24 or so J-15s from a Chinese carrier, and still carry enough weapons to strike the PLAN CVBG.

It doesn't really make common sense for F-35 having the biggest fighter jet engine does not require Jet Blast Deflectors can you site the proof of the claim of your source sir please? F-35aug2010LMfacts-RANGE.gif
According to F-16.net F-35 model B's combat radius is about 450nm, wouldn't that's well within reach of China's land-based littoral fortress zone air defense system such as their EAWS, C4ISR command satellite and coordinate their system of J-16 electric warfare fighter or the China version of Growler and J-20 stealth fighter or the China Raptor, plus all kind varieties of all you can eat buffet of anti ship missile from the size 5 for kids to all the way up to number 41 that makes the baddest bully on earth the Nimitz have to think twice so you said something quote "on a par with WW2 Fleet Carriers" something that more suited belongs to museum China is gonna be scared about? F-35 B is more like a stealth version of Harrier, more suited for anti submarine role
 

azesus

Junior Member
Registered Member
Again you bring Jet Blast Deflectors into the argument when you know they are not required for the F-35B. No carrier designed or intended to operate the 'B has them nor are there any plans to retrofit them. Japan cannot 'hold Daddy's hand' forever, they have to stand on their own two feet and they realise this for the longer term. In the Asia Pacific region they all tend to play the long game. These ships aren't 'mini carriers' at 27000 tonnes and 800+feet long they are definitely in the mid range and on a par with WW2 Fleet Carriers. They may only operate a single sqn of F-35Bs but 12 of them are more than a match for the 24 or so J-15s from a Chinese carrier, and still carry enough weapons to strike the PLAN CVBG.
How is it possible for F-35 B being STOVL as difficult as it is just get off ground and yet carry enough fuel and weapons to fight twice their number of J-15 and THAN YET still have weapon left to attack PLAN CVBG all the while have to keep all their weapons in within their belly for the stealth?
 

azesus

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's about deterrence. Right now the Japanese flat tops are defensive in posture by virtue of only operating ASW Helos. By letting it be known that the option to alter the ships' mission and capability to include F-35Bs was included in the original design brief, they let China know they can counter any aggressive via the new PLAN Carrier Strike Groups. The Japanese could have the first carrier upgraded for such ops in under a year and expedite sufficient deliveries of F-35Bs in a slightly longer period, much quicker at any rate than China could build another carrier (third? fourth etc) from scratch. At this point Japan could overtake China in numbers of carriers with combat aircraft embarked in just a few short year,- because the ships are already built. It's quicker to convert a ship already designed for the role than to build from scratch, and though the Chinese ships are bigger and can carry numerically more aircraft, that too would work in Japan's favour as their ships would still be justifiably described as 'defensive' and not 'offensive' weapons, and so not in breach of Japan's constitution.View attachment 45610 View attachment 45611 View attachment 45612
Japan and China is right at each other's doorstep, if there is drama because someone did or didn't take their crazy pill that morning there is absolutely no need for carrier to carrier engagement land based fighter jet always perform better than ship based plus all that anti ship missile, plus how much Izumo weights and how much Liaoning weights?
 

azesus

Junior Member
Registered Member
Right now the 200 or so F-35 Lock Mart produced are not up to combat ready standard so the lying cohort of MIC in cahoot Air Force labeled them as "training" squadron because we all know those generals can't wait to retire and work as a consulting vice president for those MIC companies, they "con" and "insult" taxpayers thats why they are consultant. Yep spiral development concurrency at work, nothing to see, move along, people.
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Again you bring Jet Blast Deflectors into the argument when you know they are not required for the F-35B. No carrier designed or intended to operate the 'B has them nor are there any plans to retrofit them. Japan cannot 'hold Daddy's hand' forever, they have to stand on their own two feet and they realise this for the longer term. In the Asia Pacific region they all tend to play the long game. These ships aren't 'mini carriers' at 27000 tonnes and 800+feet long they are definitely in the mid range and on a par with WW2 Fleet Carriers. They may only operate a single sqn of F-35Bs but 12 of them are more than a match for the 24 or so J-15s from a Chinese carrier, and still carry enough weapons to strike the PLAN CVBG.

Seem to have hit a nerve, OK to make amends for sake of argument I am talking rubbish and we'll do things as outlined by you, which is essentially give the Izumo a LHA-06 make over no ski jumps JBDs and other crap.

The USS America spent 40 weeks getting it's work done, essentially bracing and heat proofing the deck clearing away ariels etc for a clear flight path because the F35B is much bigger than the AV8's.

Let's be generous and say the Japanese can do it a couple weeks quicker so say 38 weeks, so if the ship goes in tomorrow by around Thanksgiving it's out again.

The Izumos have cut aways to the deck at the bow so can't use a straight runway on the port side like on the USN LHAs, as we're not going with a Ski jump pointless rebuilding the bow it will just add time which apparently isn't available, but no worry we'll just paint an angled path on the deck for take offs like in the good old days not optimal but it works

We'll get around the aircraft problem the Japanese will order a bunch and the Marines, Italians or Brits will donate some of their active ones and replace them with the Japanese ordered ones when they come off the production line and we'll do the same for munitions, 38 weeks is more than ample for a new spray job with red roundels

So we have a ship and some planes what next, oh training, so obviously have to get some help from the US Navy again, the Cavour and QE are probably available but they have ski jumps so not ideal, we'll send a couple of dozen of Japan's best and brightest pilots off to get to grips with at sea ops on whatever the yanks will let them use.

We got the ship, some planes and the personel so the Izumo is ready to go out again as we're in a rush say a week for a shake down cruise a week to fix any thing that comes out of it before we embark the air wing.

So shortly before Christmas 2018 it's nominally ready, yippee we've done it in record time. It's dangerous times that's why we're in a rush so prudent not to have both Izumos in refit at the same time after all those pesky chicoms have subs as well cold war russian and knock off chinese ones but they might get a lucky shot in you never know better safe than sorry, so we'll do the next one in 2019. So we're ready well no one's taken off or landed from the ship yet but that's just detail, deterrence that's what it's all about, we've shown them!

On the other side of the sea, the Chinese with their Soviet era rust bucket and knock off Russian cold war planes have just been twiddling their thumbs avoiding a scrap so dispirited by the activity in Japan, they haven't really bothered training much or getting ready even though they have a couple of squadrons of planes, a carrier in the water and another fitting out, because the spanking new, battle ready Japanese CBG is here! After all there's not a lot of point really they won't see those F35's coming because they're invisible and those Japanese pilots with half a year's training by the yanks are lethal, might as well hide and just stay in port.

And that's how it's done! Happier now? Did I miss something could it be done even quicker have I padded the numbers?

But in the real world may be instead of getting hot under the collar you may care to meet me half way a say it's not a walk in the park and it might take a couple or three years to do things properly in order to actually have something that might be a counter to what the Chinese have in the water already, or you could just sit back and utter to**er at your screen as you read this, just covering my bases :)
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
It's about deterrence. Right now the Japanese flat tops are defensive in posture by virtue of only operating ASW Helos. By letting it be known that the option to alter the ships' mission and capability to include F-35Bs was included in the original design brief, they let China know they can counter any aggressive via the new PLAN Carrier Strike Groups. The Japanese could have the first carrier upgraded for such ops in under a year and expedite sufficient deliveries of F-35Bs in a slightly longer period, much quicker at any rate than China could build another carrier (third? fourth etc) from scratch. At this point Japan could overtake China in numbers of carriers with combat aircraft embarked in just a few short year,- because the ships are already built. It's quicker to convert a ship already designed for the role than to build from scratch, and though the Chinese ships are bigger and can carry numerically more aircraft, that too would work in Japan's favour as their ships would still be justifiably described as 'defensive' and not 'offensive' weapons, and so not in breach of Japan's constitution.View attachment 45610 View attachment 45611 View attachment 45612

Exactly so!,, and 12 F-35 Bravo's will "do the do" to twice or three times as many OP-FOR, and in an emergency, they could recover to those carriers tonight if need be, PLUNK, down, tie em down! BRAVO, it will be the game changer,, don't mess wit it!
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Japan "may" upgrade all of its four Helicopter Carriers and can boast of having more Carriers in operation than China. They may do that faster than China could field four aircraft carriers. However, to fill those carriers with F-35s, it would take them a substantial amount of time. Not to mention their test & evaluation before they are actually put into active service. By the time Japan is done upgrading it's helicopter destroyers to be able to launch F-35s, and then wait for the F-35s to be delivered, and finally be fully operational. China would have already fielded 3 aircraft carriers, including CV-002. With the range, capacity and firepower of China's two CATOBARs and two STOVLs. China would actually be in the lead, rather than lagging behind. The only question mark is whether China plans to field Stealth Aircraft on its CATOBAR Carriers.

to your last question there is only one answer, 'they better", as to the rest of your assertions, F-35s are "ROLLING" off "assembly lines",,, so if folks want to do it, it will get done, and much sooner than might be expected, the production line right now is limited mostly by peoples "check books" not production capacity...

So, will the Chinese build the FC-31, buy a naval SU-57, or "Navalize" the J-20,,, hey at this stage its anybody's ball game, the FC-31 looks like a fairly obvious choice, but like each of the other choices, there are obstacles,,, likely the Chinese will continue to fill their flat tops with J-15s, and soon J-15S's,, but at some point, they will begin to place 5 gens on those carriers..
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
QE time again: she's back home in Pompey now and has been moored portside on to the quay for the first time. This is to allow the testing of her starboard Marine Evacuation System (MES), the Portside ones were tested last year in Rosyth before she sailed for her sea trials and this is the first chance they've had to test the starboard side:28378623_10160280142175413_135276636987352388_n.jpg 28471368_10155986829220049_3183337770185654272_o.jpg And the flight deck was, as with the rest of the UK, covered in snow, although reports of the flight deck being cleared of snow about an hour later indicate the de-icing system is very effective:28378847_10160280909525413_7567913708149728445_n.jpg 28377757_10160280909950413_2825810250121524428_n.jpg
And finally a great view of QE seen from alongside HMS Victory:28472299_10155982040851826_7375310773623366196_n.jpg
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
hey at this sthe FC-31 looks like a fairly obvious choice, but like each of the other choices, there are obstacles,,, likely the Chinese will continue to fill their flat tops with J-15s, and soon J-15S's,, but at some point, they will begin to place 5 gens on those carriers..

On the flipside of Japan converting it's Helicopter Carriers to launch-n-recover fixed wing F-35s. The J-31s may actually get the "state's" backing in order to fast track the aircraft's development and deployment.
 
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