Aircraft Carriers III

hkbc

Junior Member

Don't disagree it can all be done but no ski jump and JBDs means less carry home weapon weight, less range, lower sortie rates especially on a mini carrier, of all people here shouldn't need to point that out to you! What's the point in taking a vessel out of service to create a half baked answer quickly when you can do the job properly especially as there won't be any planes to fly off it, the assembly line they have isn't for F35Bs and yes they can modify it but still need the parts for a B, they can pull the RN trick of borrowing some planes from the Marine Corp but that's hardly saying "in your face China" more like "I've got mates" which is moot as there's already a US CBG home based in Japan! If the Japanese really wanted deterrence they'll do an Israel and build the Bomb, it's not like they don't know how, sticking a few F35Bs on a compromised hull tomorrow in order to do a "me too" won't cut it! it sends a message, but the CMC aren't going to be quaking in their boots. However, in the world of today, building a bomb is likely to be a non-starter, unless the Chinese start claiming Hokkaido so maybe this is viewed as the best available alternative.

From the safety of these shores (yes from blighty too!) it would be nostalgic to see a Japanese carrier again, but the chest thumping, Soviet era junk stuff, seriously, least we forget what the Japanese did last time a Japanese carrier plowed the waves and what the ultimate response was!
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Does no one fact check here! It's the small matter of A F35A isn't a F35B, someone has to supply you the lift fan system and all the bits that are different, pretty sure Rolls Royce doesn't have them sitting around! you can probably fly a F35A off a ship just don't try landing one!
We know what we are talking about. Rolls Royce builds them. it's a sub component. all that would be needed is a order placed for units and that order filled. in fact The US, Israel, Japan, Turkey and Italy all have lines for assembly and manufacture of parts. That means that the subcontractors who manufacture parts are going to be ramping up production.
 

timepass

Brigadier
The US Navy's next advanced aircraft carrier is 70% complete...

5a957c1eaae6051b008b464c-750-375.jpg

A crane moves the lower stern into place on the USS John F. Kennedy in June. US Navy


"The USS John F. Kennedy, the second of the US Navy's Gerald R. Ford-class advanced nuclear-powered aircraft carriers, has reached 70% completion, according to the shipbuilder Huntington Ingalls.

Like the first-in-class Gerald R. Ford, the Kennedy is being constructed using a modular technique, in which smaller parts of the ship are welded to form larger chunks, called superlifts, that then come together."

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here comes this point of view:
Successful flight trials period vindicates design of HMS Queen Elizabeth
February 27, 2018
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HMS Queen Elizabeth returned to Portsmouth today after 25 days away. During this time she
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, conducted rotary wing flying trials and met up with RFA Tidespring for her first Replenishment at Sea.

56 aircrew, analysts and engineers from the Air Test and Evaluation Centre (ATEC) at MOD Boscombe Down have been onboard the aircraft carrier for the past month with two Merlin Mk2 and two Chinook Mk 5 test aircraft. Just 8 months after she first put to sea, HMS Queen Elizabeth has already successfully conducted 1,000 deck landings in a range of sea and weather conditions. The Chinooks and Merlins flew an average of 10 hours a day, gathering data about how the aircraft perform operating from the ship. Chinooks performed 450 deck landings while the Merlins made 540. QinetiQ will process this information over the coming months and will eventually provide the Ship Helicopter Operating Limits (SHOL) that will specify in what conditions helicopters can fly from the QEC carriers in the future.

For the majority of the time, the ship was in the Atlantic to make use of the wide range of weather conditions available there. (AIS confused many, having ‘spoofed’ her as being in the Mediterranean off Malta during the last 2 weeks). In the more extreme Atlantic weather, the ship was tested further and aircraft were flown to their limits. The trials went extremely well, even though it was within a compressed timescale (The ships
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date was delayed by a few days).

RN test pilot and Detachment Commander for the trials team, Commander Matt Grindon said: “We’ve been learning about the wind patterns on deck, this is a new design of ship and the way wind moves across the deck and affects flying is something that we’ve focused on in these trials. Whilst turbulence is normal, one of my pilots has described it as the ‘Hand of God’ grabbing you and pushing you down onto the ship, which obviously requires a big power demand to stop the aircraft descending, so that’s given us some interesting insight.”

The trials have helped vindicate the design of the ship, in particular, the unique twin islands which help reduce wind turbulence over the deck. It is encouraging to note that the trials team have reported the ship can be cleared to operate aircraft in a much wider range of conditions than expected. Commander Air, Cdr Mark Deller said: “The ship has held up well, the deck is good and consequently the aircraft have behaved themselves, so all good news.”

Royal Marines from Lima Compay, 42 Commando joined the ship for an initial exercise in sending troop ashore. “Assault Stations” was called for the very first time, troops were processed from their accommodation, through the ship, collecting weapons and ammunition in a carefully orchestrated process, into the hangar and then onto the flight deck to simulate being launched ashore by helicopter. These are the first steps on the way to declaring Initial Operating Capability in the Landing Platform Helicopter (LPH) role and more complex LPH evolutions are planned for this autumn.

While making her way back toward Portsmouth the first Replenishment at Sea (RAS) trial was conducted with the new support tanker RFA Tidespring. A line was passed across to the tanker from the deck of QE but the evolution was abandoned due to the conditions. Poor weather would not normally prevent RAS if really needed, but while undertaking an initial trial with two new platforms it is sensible not to take unnecessary risks. The QEC are equipped with 4 refuelling points, 2 on each side and the Tide class tankers have dual probes so diesel and aviation fuel can be passed across simultaneously, reducing the time needed for the replenishment.

On arrival in Portsmouth, the QE was berthed on Princess Royal Jetty with her bows pointing south for the first time. This will allow maintenance to be conducted on the Port side of the ship. Eventually, she will ‘wind ship’ and be turned 180º so that her starboard side is adjacent to the jetty which allows better access to the engineering teams via lowered aircraft lifts. The ship will be fitted with additional deck landing aids and other equipment required to support fixed-wing aircraft before she deploys to the United States in the summer, when the first F-35B Lightning will land onboard.
 
... in fact The US, Israel, Japan, Turkey and Italy all have lines for assembly and manufacture of parts. ...
in fact Japan is super-smart as
"The sources said buying complete aircraft from the United States, at about $100 million each, will save Japan about $30 million per airframe."
Exclusive: Japan to buy at least 20 more F-35A stealth fighters - sources
February 21, 2018
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LOL
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
as I said Yesterday at 7:15 AM it's FANBOISH BUNK to talk F-35B operating off of the Izumos/Hyugas, and since then I saw nothing posted which would show F-35Bs were coming to those vessels, just people kidding themselves with what might happen LOL

on let's say strategic level, Brother:

as far as I know, there's USN CSG permanently stationed in Yokosuka, so I think the Japanese, instead of going for some their "pocket carriers", should just leave
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and Opfor CVGBs to the USN to handle;

I'm done with 'Japanese aircraft carriers' here (until I see there's going to be such a thing, by the way this would mean I was wrong hahaha)

Call it whatever you like, the reality is Japan will depend upon the US for much of the heavy lifting, but as President Trump has told all of our allies, they are going to have to do what it takes to "pick up their end of the load"..

the US has unsustainable debt, and has become a debtor nation, and a net importer of goods rather than exporter..

Japan is building F-35As now, they could easily build some Bravo's or they could trade production A's for production B's, several of LockMarts A model customers are in the Western Pacific region...

there will be B models on those carriers when its all said and done, they are perfectly capable of "projecting power", and a dozen or two F-35Bs will change the equation,, but hey, you've taken the position that the F-35 is all smoke and mirrors??? so, I really don't expect you to be a "true believer", those of us who are familiar with the airplane will "soldier on" waiting for the "lightbulb"?
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Does no one fact check here! It's the small matter of A F35A isn't a F35B, someone has to supply you the lift fan system and all the bits that are different, pretty sure Rolls Royce doesn't have them sitting around! you can probably fly a F35A off a ship just don't try landing one!

Every knowledgeable poster here knows that F-35A's are built in Texas, Italy, and Japan. Japan is currently rolling 8/10s of a Lockheed Martin F-22 off assembly lines now,,, the B is much more complex than the A, but they can build them, or they can trade Japanese A models for Texas B models, the capability and production capacity is there, the need and the desire is there, and they have China growling and rumbling every day now, just off the coast to remind them??

sad, but very true, not a question of if, but when, and they better be ready!

so you tell me, if you were Japan, what would you do???
 

azesus

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't have to work for Lock Mart but by common sense alone from technological perspective Model B is much more complex and expansive and from both USA's political perspective they don't entirely trust Japan not even on Australia level and USA doesn't even completely tech with UK share, also from the business perspective Lock Mart would love hold hostage just to milk as money as possible, Lock Mart is not close to entirely honest with the US government and yet people think they will give full support to Japan? Japan is just cash cow prepared to get milk dry because MIC CEOs got responsibility to shareholders
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
Don't disagree it can all be done but no ski jump and JBDs means less carry home weapon weight, less range, lower sortie rates especially on a mini carrier, of all people here shouldn't need to point that out to you! What's the point in taking a vessel out of service to create a half baked answer quickly when you can do the job properly especially as there won't be any planes to fly off it, the assembly line they have isn't for F35Bs and yes they can modify it but still need the parts for a B, they can pull the RN trick of borrowing some planes from the Marine Corp but that's hardly saying "in your face China" more like "I've got mates" which is moot as there's already a US CBG home based in Japan! If the Japanese really wanted deterrence they'll do an Israel and build the Bomb, it's not like they don't know how, sticking a few F35Bs on a compromised hull tomorrow in order to do a "me too" won't cut it! it sends a message, but the CMC aren't going to be quaking in their boots. However, in the world of today, building a bomb is likely to be a non-starter, unless the Chinese start claiming Hokkaido so maybe this is viewed as the best available alternative.

From the safety of these shores (yes from blighty too!) it would be nostalgic to see a Japanese carrier again, but the chest thumping, Soviet era junk stuff, seriously, least we forget what the Japanese did last time a Japanese carrier plowed the waves and what the ultimate response was!
Again you bring Jet Blast Deflectors into the argument when you know they are not required for the F-35B. No carrier designed or intended to operate the 'B has them nor are there any plans to retrofit them. Japan cannot 'hold Daddy's hand' forever, they have to stand on their own two feet and they realise this for the longer term. In the Asia Pacific region they all tend to play the long game. These ships aren't 'mini carriers' at 27000 tonnes and 800+feet long they are definitely in the mid range and on a par with WW2 Fleet Carriers. They may only operate a single sqn of F-35Bs but 12 of them are more than a match for the 24 or so J-15s from a Chinese carrier, and still carry enough weapons to strike the PLAN CVBG.
 
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