Aircraft Carriers II (Closed to posting)

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man overbored

Junior Member
Hey Popeye, have you been back to visit the Midway in San Diego? Outstanding. The CH-46 on display is one I have logged time in. I checked the BUNO against my log book. Seven flights for fourteen hours in that airframe before it went off to the NARF ( now the NARF is called NADEP ) to become an SR&M D model. Ah the memories, eh? :) I liked the comment of the guy I visited it with as we stepped aboard "hmmm, smells like a ship". Yep.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Hey Popeye, have you been back to visit the Midway in San Diego? Outstanding. The CH-46 on display is one I have logged time in. I checked the BUNO against my log book. Seven flights for fourteen hours in that airframe before it went off to the NARF ( now the NARF is called NADEP ) to become an SR&M D model. Ah the memories, eh? :) I liked the comment of the guy I visited it with as we stepped aboard "hmmm, smells like a ship". Yep.


Oh yes I have!! I have a thread entitled(click below)

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/popeye-s-san-diego-vacation-3262.html

Check it out!!

I miss ,my adult kids:(, the weather, diversity of the population & the food(Mexican & Asian) of Southern California. I did live in San Diego for 26 years. '77-'04..

H-46 driver where ya'?? Humm..Where you ever in HC-11? I was there in '83 - '85. Shore duty side. I ran the Paraloft.:)

Navy ships do certainly have a smell...It is unforgetable. You hadda be there!
 

man overbored

Junior Member
Ah, I was at HC-11 from '87 to '89. Guess I missed you. I'm trying to remember someone in the loft named Robin, the last name escapes me now, she was a first class. And there was Petty Officer Tool, aka Power Tool. Great guy. We had our own greeting. We would face each other and make a motion like wiping a windscreen and say at the same time "Canopy wax on", then reverse the motion and say "canopy wax off", our way of saying it was just another day in paradise! We had great troops there, maybe the best helo squadron in the Navy. You know we earned a Meritorious Unit Commendation and a big surprise, the Defense Logistics Award. That one usually went to a C-141 or C-5 wing. A helo outfit never before earned that one.
 

IDonT

Senior Member
VIP Professional
New Photos of the INS Vikramaditya (the ski-jump)

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man overbored

Junior Member
And the original plan was for this thing to re-commission in August of this year. India could have the Kitty Hawk in service earlier than that thing will be ready. Boy wouldn't that be a howl if India pulls the trigger. The upshot of such a move is that Russia would have a half complete flattop sitting in their yard. I wonder if they would complete it for themselves or offer it to another nation? Maybe China? Maybe Argentina? Call it Venticinque de Mayo II LOL. Fly Skyhawks and Stoofs off the thing! Anyone know how much money India is out of pocket on that thing right now? Did the Indians pay anything up front or was it COD?
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Anyone know how much money India is out of pocket on that thing right now? Did the Indians pay anything up front or was it COD?

We have a member named IndianFighter who may know the answer to that question. I think the Indians have already given the Russians over $1 billion dollars for the ship..

IDonT!! where have you been?? Happy you are posting again!Keep it up!
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
man overbored..remember this:confused:.."Oh thank Heaven for HC-11":D..Ya' know HC-11 was decomissioned and is now HCS-21. Now flying SH-60s..dunno what model...

Man Overbored..what do you think, as a helo driver, of this aircraft? And it's suitablity for sea duty?

Some very recent PIX of the MV-22 Osprey.

11og6.jpg

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10ag7.jpg

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38561199jq0.jpg

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ATLANTIC OCEAN (Feb. 20, 2008) MV-22 Ospreys in operation on the flight deck of the amphibious assault ship USS Nassau (LHA 4) after refueling. The Nassau Strike Group deployed in support of maritime security operations and theater security cooperation efforts in the U.S. 5th and 6th Fleet areas of responsibility. U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class Rustum Rivera (Released)
 

Scratch

Captain
Anyone know how much money India is out of pocket on that thing right now? Did the Indians pay anything up front or was it COD?

Best info I could find on short notice. It's quiet something, but perhaps it still pays off to drop out in the long run.

Subsequent updates, however, have proven the critics correct, with even the Ministry admitting as much. Cost estimates and reports concerning the Gorshkov’s final total vary from $700-$1.4 billion, of which $400-500 million has reportedly already been paid. DID’s experience with Indian defense procurement issues is that these figures mean little, beyond defining broad orders of magnitude. Transparency will eventually come, but deals with Russia mean that it will come only from pressure within India, and then only after all other alternatives have been exhausted. Reports until then are really a set of varyingly educated guesses.

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Oh, and BTW, I guess they started
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at Navantia ... :)
 
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crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Japan is constitutionally constrained from having offensive weapons, and is specifically prohibited from having surface ships that displace more than 20K tons ( I think? ) and cannot legally have "aircraft carriers". The 16DDH seems to walk a fine line around these restrictions. No ski jump and no plans to ship F-35B's. It will carry helo's only. Ahem. How much does the forum want to bet that sooner or later some USMC Harriers or F-35B's cross deck to one of those ships, just to test "compatablilty" or some such diplomatically couched excuse. Prepare for the resulting outrage.

VTOL brings its own problems. Aircraft going vertical has a tendency to blast down the deck. On asphalt runaways, they have a tendency to melt asphalt, leaving that spot unusable for other aircraft. You can melt or leave major hotspots on a carrier deck that can make it unusable with othe aircraft unless cooled. The draft caused by the VTOL can also pose problems.

In any case, its difficult to do a VTOL if the aircraft is loaded. Hence why Harriers still take off most of the time conventionally.
 

man overbored

Junior Member
VTOL brings its own problems. Aircraft going vertical has a tendency to blast down the deck. On asphalt runaways, they have a tendency to melt asphalt, leaving that spot unusable for other aircraft. You can melt or leave major hotspots on a carrier deck that can make it unusable with othe aircraft unless cooled. The draft caused by the VTOL can also pose problems.

In any case, its difficult to do a VTOL if the aircraft is loaded. Hence why Harriers still take off most of the time conventionally.


This issue has been worked out decades ago. VSTOL aircraft use a rolling take off either over a ski jump or on the longer decks of USN ships just use more room mainly to reduce fuel burn on take off, leaving the loaded aircraft with greater range. Landing is always vertical. Issues with deck erosion were sorted out decades ago with appropriate deck coatings, it is a non-issue now. A vertical take off is not hard at all actually, it just eats into the fuel in a big way.

"Oh thank heaven for HC-11" :) Yes indeed ! I knew they transitioned to the MH-60S and were re-named HCS-21. Did you know their original mission, VERTREP or Vertical Replenishment, has been contracted out to Evergreen Aviation???. Amazing, the ammo ships I cruised on, and the AOE's that have replaced the Sacramento class I also cruised, have been switched to Military Sealift Command and are all civilian staffed. Somehow we are expected to believe it is cheaper to pay a civilian able bodied seaman who makes some serios jingle than it is to pay a lowly Navy Petty Officer to do the same job. I'm waving the BS flag on that one, but I don't get to make policy decisions. Evergreen is using Puma's to do the CH-46D's old job. Not as good a helo by any stretch for that mission but who knows how much the president of Evergreen contributes in election years, eh? Evergreen works for the CIA too, so he has that inside connection ( ps when I applied there ages ago they offered me a positon flying not for the Panamanian government but specifically for "Mr Noriega". I'm quite sure that job involved flying loads of drugs and I politely declined, ahem! ).
The tilt rotor. I have to wonder why anyone wants to fly something that expensive and that complex into a hot landing zone. Helo's get shot up during combat assualts, it is unavoidable. My thinking is to keep a combat assault helo simple and crashable like a Blackhawk. Hey, a Blackhawk is so tough you can literally loose all power, bottom the collective and hit the ground at 1500fpm and walk away. I you ever had access to the old Army safety pub Flighfax every week were outrageous accounts of Blackhawks striking the ground during some German snow storm at 80 kts and everyone walking away. One demo the Navy does is to put a Seahawk in a high hover on a taxiway with a student and the instructor yanks the power control levers off. Yee haaa. I have personally seen this taxiing by at North Island. The Seahawk drops like a rock, hits, bounces and hits again. Nothing is hurt, all in a normal day's work. You should see how the Army dogs pound those things into the weeds making a combat assault. First the tail wheel hits the dirt then the main gear. They slam it into the ground, bounce it a time or two, the troops run out and the pilot is arm-pitting the collective and nosing it over as the last guy leaves the cabin. I rather doubt the Marines will be able to get away with those shenanigans in a tilt rotor. Too big, too complicated and way to expensive to routinely abuse.
Where that thing makes tremendous sense if for special forces insertions ( too bad we didn't have them to rescue the hostages from Iran in 1979 ) and for things like ASW or AEW off small flight decks where you cannot fit an S-3 or E-2. Imagine a Cavour sized VSTOL ship using tilt rotors for long range ASW and AEW, that is the perfect mission for these. Neither mission involves a lot of hard landings or exposure to enemy fire. Ah well, the Marines want that thing and that is that. How many times has Congress cancelled it already? Oh, Boeing even made a prototype tandem rotor helo on their own dime as a hedge against the tilt rotor either failing or being cancelled. Google up the Boeing 360, it is an outstanding design that richly deserves to be built. Yeah, I'm queer for tandem rotors, but once you fly one nothing else compares.

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