Nice pics , but Harriers usually perform rolling takeoff in real operations , like below . My guess is that those pictures were a bit of military show-off.
Of course they were showing off. It is clear that they did not intend to take off like they are shown on the Garibaldi. Just because they were lined up for a picture does not mean they will take off that way. They would take the Harriers aboard (in this case 7 and 8) and then gather them at the aft section and line up for the take off, rolling forward off the deck.
[quote-thunderchief]They operated in configuration that was practical : 4-6 Harriers and about 10-12 Of course they did, as I said, there was no war going on so they just needed to maintain their capabilities and perform their exercises. That was implicit in my own answer. The point is, they could carry more anytime it would have been warranted.
thunderchief said:
Again , problem of the lifts , hangar space and deck length . Yes , F-35B could take off vertically like Harrier , but to have meaningful range and payload it would have to perform rolling takeoff .
Of course it will. On any platform without a ski-jump, the roll will be longer. But they will roll to take off. The point here is, again, since they are capable of VTOL, they can maximize whatever deck is available to their benefit for which ever carrier they are operating off of.
thuinderchief said:
Invincible class could carry troops instead of aircraft . 22DDH (also known as 19000t-class destroyer ) should carry both helicopters and troops by the design . Btw , Invincible class was around 22 000 t fully loaded .
The 22DDH is not designed to carry troops as a matter of course. That will not be one of its primary purposes. It will be able to do so as required, principally for humanitarian relief. It is not an Amphibious or air assault vessel.
As to the Invincible class, as carriers they were rated at 20,300 for most of their life. The Illustrious, the only one left, is no longer a fixed wing aircraft carrier. They all went through a reft in the 1990s to increase the size of their flight deck, and then the Illustrious went through another refit recently to change her to an air assault aviation vessel. As a result, her displacement has increased to the current 22,000 tons shown by the RN and other sites because she is the only one left. Here is a good site that speaks of them as they were designed to be fixed wing (HArrier) aircraft carriers:
, which has not changed its data to be up to date with the current data. I was speaking of her as originally outfitted for the fixed wig role in which she operated for most of her life. Anyhow, those additional 1,700 tons either way do not really have impact on this discussion because the Invincible Class were not ever going to be upgraded for the F-35B in any case.
thunderchief said:
22DDH could operate F-35B if they enlarge the hangar on the expense of carrying troops , reduce number of helicopters , and strengthen the deck to withstand the heat . I don't know if the elevators could support F-35B . Even if they do all of that , they could operate only handful of F-35Bs . Is it worth of trouble - I don't know
Actually the 22DDH vessels were designed to be built with the proper heat treatment and elevator capabilities. They are supposed to be built having in mind the future with both the V-22 and the JSF. When the first one comes out, I believe we shall see that she has been. At some point, once she is commissioned, just like the Hyuga cross decked and tested the V-22, I believe we will see the 22DDH cross deck and test the V-22 and the JSF.
As to the other issues, her hanger is already large enough for the F-35B. It is certainly true that the JMSDF could increase the number of JSF she can carry by enlarging the hanger, and by removing some of the room set aside for the humanitarian function.
As I said in my last post, if China continues to develop a larger and larger fixed wing naval aviation capability, I believe we will see the JMSDF respond with F-35Bs on the 22DDH vessels.
Thunderchief said:
I agree to leave it at this , too much off-topic , and only future knows what would happen to 22DDH project
That's fine. They did move these posts to the Carrier thread here so it is not really off topic now. But we have pretty much exhausted all of the issues and points on both sides. All we can do really, is wait and see.
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