2019 India-Pakistani border clash

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Junior Member

5. So impunity is actually the antonym of whatever word you should be using because having a jet shot down and pilot captured by a neighbor is an ugliness that generally does not occur outside of the middle east. I know Pakistan did not immediately respond; most countries would not have an immediate response or be ready for a neighbor suddenly bombing an empty forest on the edge of its territory. Pakistan baited India the next day and humiliated the IAF to the extent that the Indian Western Marshall was fired in hours. And you use "impunity?" Let's put it this way: if you tried to steal from your neighbor, got nothing but he saw you on video sneaking around his back yard and the next day, he baited you back and cut off your finger, and you say that means that you can take from your neighbor with "impunity," then you can use it here too in the same application.
6. If you don't have dead bodies (not even satellite images of dead bodies) and you don't have proof you killed anyone, then you have provided no reason for anyone to believe you, which is why no country believes India's claim that it kill terrorists. You have a habit of making up fanciful reasons for why India doesn't have evidence when once again, no evidence is no evidence. I can make up imaginary situations a bucket a minute for why we have no evidence but actually Pakistan shot down 50 IAF jets but at the end of the day, no evidence is no evidence. No fairy tales will be accepted in their place.
7. Once again, Pakistan's reaction was not heavy at all; it was perfectly proportional. Reread 1. Maybe if another country bombs India and deals no damage, you think India should just make up stories to avoid conflict but other countries don't work like that. You invaded my territory and dropped bombs, I do the same to you. If there is war, there is war. Nobody is scared of India. But if there is peace, it's not because you can bomb my territory and I have to back down. That's the mentality that you should understand.
8. My points on the F-16 are the same as yours on the MKI so take it or leave it but they're not going to be different.
9. If I'm ridiculous, then how come all the Chinese, Pakastani, American, and European posters on this forum agree with me and nobody agrees with you? Sometimes you have to look at your surroundings. If everyone is driving in the opposite direction from you, you are probably the one driving the wrong way. Crazy people don't think about that.
10. Very funny how you write nonsensical text walls in broken English and call me illiterate. This is obviously the quality of your writing, thinking, and analysis.

PS. I forgot to ask you this, but in your last post, you said that you likely could not learn from someone as young as me. Aside from the abject stupidity of believing that old people cannot learn from young people, why did you bring up age? How old am I? Do you know or is this another instance of you running your mouth about things you don't understand as a strategy to cover up your broken and defeated arguments?
For what its worth, I'm sorry, So very sorry. You see, you triggered my good reading habits with your absurd posts. And I thought to myself, How does some one make 10000 posts of such quality and not be rewarded. So if you'll accept my apology and leave me, I would forever return the favor.


Junior Member
You should really ponder on this... All the propaganda and lies that have come out of this episode, were all led by your civilian leadership, and peddled by your 'independent' media. No one forced them with a gun to their head, it wasn't some dictator... That is what should really scare you.

By the way, last weekend I was talking to a person who lived in the Balakot area. I asked him if there really was a "training camp" in that location. He told me there is "nothing there" anymore. Many years ago, there used to be a training camp, but it was closed down. Because Pakistan no longer trains militants to send to Kashmir like we keep telling your government. Reuters went all over that area and inspected it and confirmed there was no "training camp" in that location. And still, your media channels like Times Now are constantly telling you lies about how successful you were in destroying a camp that doesn't even exist, with bombs that didn't even hit the target.

Also, he told me that close to that location from where the bombs struck, is a cadet college for the Army's children. Do you have any idea what would've happened if in this ridiculous attack, your IAF accidentally hit that college and killed our Army's children? We responded so harshly for a few killed trees, and a dead crow. What do you think we would've done if you had fragged a college full of kids?! It would've started the first war between two nuclear powers! That is how stupid your "civilian government's" actions were. And all because your prime minister (who is already responsible for a genocide in Gujarat) wanted another win for his rabid electorate before the coming elections...
Also, it was Masoods family being targeted, specially his brother-in law from what we know he does make speeches here for a Jihad so very often. Have you seen his brother in law? Joking aside, I normally read policy actions from the top to understand whats happening at the bottom. Another dangerous trend is the MO changing from LeT from specific targeting and ambushes to straight out suicide bombings. Last I recall, suicide bombings were not LeTs MO. Either LeT is desperate or its not LeT.


Junior Member
Registered Member

.... I'm done talking to you... this is what you said in response to me telling you that the IAF strike came close to hitting a school full of our army's kids:

Perhaps that was a deliberate message. We know highly likely that extremist elements have influence within ISI Army and Imran Khan.
.... I don't even want to dignify this with a response.

Your own Air Force will be ashamed of you for having suggested something like this...


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Super Moderator
Tentatively reopening the thread based on official disclosure by ISPR. Keep things civil please! Anyone who openly trolls on this thread will be banned without warning.

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ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is ruling out the possibility of using its nuclear weapons and sees them as more of deterrence tool to prevent actual wars, Spokesman for the Pakistan Army Maj Gen Asif Ghafoor told the international media in an interview.

"Since we have gone overtly nuclear, as India also, in 1998, our stance is that this capability eliminates the possibility of a conventional war between the two states. So that is to say, this is a weapon of deterrence and a political choice. No sane country having this capability would talk about using it," Ghafoor said.

The official noted that even though the country’s protection was of utmost importance, it would be "insane" to discuss the use of nuclear weapons.

He also pointed out Pakistan’s willingness to take steps towards non-proliferation of nuclear arms — but only if India does the same.

"Pakistan will undertake anything which is based on equality. You cannot tie the hands of Pakistan and keep India open. Anything that happens should happen for both countries," Ghafoor said.

He said Pakistan was negotiating defence industry cooperation with Russia in the areas of aviation, air defense systems and anti-tank missiles.

"We are having the aviation, we are having the air defense, we are having the anti-tank domain, which we are negotiating. And that will be positive negotiations," Ghafoor said.

The spokesman declined to clarify which items were on the agenda of talks, but noted that Pakistan was open to various offers. "Nothing is out. Anything and everything, which is possible to be purchased by Pakistan, will be done," Ghafoor said.

The official further noted that Pakistan would welcome Russia’s role in mediating the recently inflamed tensions between Pakistan and India. "We would welcome any third-party mediation, which can bring peace in the region. And Russia is more than welcome," Ghafoor said. According to the spokesman, Pakistan valued Russia's role in the Afghan settlement process and recognized its importance in regional processes.

"We greatly value the relevance and importance of Russia in the region, especially what role Russia has lately played toward the Afghan reconciliation… Russia looks toward balance of power and multipolarity in the world. We value Russia's voice as the voice of reason, and we would love if Russia, being a powerful country, plays its role which enables bringing peace in South Asia and beyond. And we expect that Russia will do it, as the efforts in fact being undertaken by Russia are generating good results," Ghafoor said.

Gen. Ghafoor rejected India's claims that Pakistan used US-made F-16 to down Indian aircraft in late February, stating that PAC JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft developed jointly with China were used instead.

"The aircraft which engaged those targets and fought them were JF-17. As regard to how to use F-16, in what context [they] were used or not — because at that point of time our entire Air Force was airborne — now it remains between Pakistan and the US to see how the MoUs regarding the use of F-16 have been adhered to or otherwise," Ghafoor said.

He noted that Islamabad was discussing the use of its JF-17 with the United States citing "friendly relations" with Washington, stressing, however, that the country would use whatever it deemed necessary if it came to "legitimate self-defense."

The official also shared Pakistan's account of the events that preceded the dogfight on February 28. According to Ghafoor, the Indian jets violated the Pakistani airspace on February 26, dropping payloads without inflicting any casualties or damage to infrastructure. Pakistan then, according to his words, decided to retaliate but chose not to threaten civilian lives.

"Next day, our Air Force, while staying within our own airspace, took four targets in the India-Occupied Kashmir (IOK)… Being a responsible country, we could have caused damage even to the military installations or human life… But we had to show our will, capability and resolve. So what we did — we first chose the targets, and when the targets were locked by the aircraft, we shifted the point of impact to a safety distance where there was no infrastructure or human life, meaning thereby that we wanted to tell Indians that we had the capability to hit that military target, but in the interest of peace of the region we are only showing you our capability," Ghafoor said. He added that Pakistan had the footage of this operation.


Since the therad is open ... reposting the below...

All four Missiles from captured Indian pilot Abhinandan MIG-21 wreckage have been recovered by Pakistan.

So what exactly he fired to shot down a Pakistani F-16 as being claimed by Indians?

Mig-21 could only carry 4 Missiles at most, no more and it actually was carrying 2x R-77 and 2x R-73.

It could not fire any missile....



Senior Member
Registered Member
If that report is true I think it is a bad idea for Pakistan to try to use Russia as a major weapons supplier. India has been the largest purchaser of Russian weapons for several years now. India might push Russia into cutting weapons sales into Pakistan for whatever reason. I think they are better off with the Chinese. Heck even with (some) western suppliers.


Senior Member
If that report is true I think it is a bad idea for Pakistan to try to use Russia as a major weapons supplier. India has been the largest purchaser of Russian weapons for several years now. India might push Russia into cutting weapons sales into Pakistan for whatever reason. I think they are better off with the Chinese. Heck even with (some) western suppliers.
One should not put the blame of failure of February 27th's air battle on the Russian Federation. The rate at which "india's MiG-21s" fall outta the sky, boils down to indian incompetence in servicing their fighter jets, not the Russians! One has but to recall the air-to-air victories of the Vietnamese Air Force against the Americans to know that Russian fighter jets and their missiles, work! The manufacturer cannot possibly bare the responsibility of its products when their maintenance and logistical support is in the hands of the operator country. It is no coincidence why the French flat out refused the indian Rafale deal. Citing that india must bare the full responsibility of manufacturing the aircraft. It isn't any wonder why Sepecat Jaguar's "Darin ll" has also been deemed a failure.

As for Pakistan buying Russian fighters or tanks, or anything else is concerned. Well why not? Su-35s are badass fighter jets, T-90s can wipe the floor with any tank in the world and the S-400s have no peers, at all, at all, at all!!! Whatever the outcome of the talks, one thing is for sure, Pakistan will drive hard for the best deal possible. One which would encompass all support, logistics, MRO base to sustain such equipment. Pakistan is not india (thank Allah), as such Pakistan will not be sending its Sukhoi engines back to Russia for maintenance, just because MRO standards are not up to scratch on their side. Pursuing Russian military hardware is a smart move by Pakistan as this lends support to Pakistan stance of not putting all eggs in one basket!
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