2019 India-Pakistani border clash

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asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Jav still annoyed your FLANKER was shot down ?

Anyway latest in

The Brahmastra Corps is shifting to Panagarh

That’s like 200,000 men

Where India’s 1st mountain corps will be based
 
D

Deleted member 13312

Guest
Jav still annoyed your FLANKER was shot down ?

Anyway latest in

The Brahmastra Corps is shifting to Panagarh

That’s like 200,000 men

Where India’s 1st mountain corps will be based
No, and I am not Indian to begin with lol. This is the kind of behaviour that SDF is actively against, it neither contributes to this discussion at hand nor resolves anything, but only serve to degrade the quality of the discussion.
It is amazing how every little thing can get some people hyped up like a hippie on drugs.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Bohai bay is too far away

4500km from Bay of Bengal

Also need to transit Malacca Straits

CV-16 is out of position 4-5 days sailing

In 1999 kargil war China send 40 x F7PG with M11 missiles within 24 hours

Ammunition ships were docking at Karachi port 2 weeks after the stand off, now China Is strong

Either way if they don’t help, Pakistan can take Indians if they do it will make it easier for Pakistan

Beijing and Islamabad are talking

IL-78 tankers from Southern India have reached LOC

Looks like they will try and even the score today against PAF

I believe China won't leave Pakistan alone but the situation is that if China put their hands in, the situation may be worsened. I think Pakistan has done the very right things at the moment by sending their most potential aircraft, the JF-17, to fight back the Indian jets, and tell India that Pakistan has no intention to escalate the situation, if India wants to fight terrorism, India has to sit down and talk with Pakistan. This is a very clear message, "you (India) are not Israel and I (Pakistan) am not Syria. If you want to fight, I can take on you. If you wanna talk, we can sit down and talk". No foreign armed force should intervene at this moment or the situation would be out of control.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Bohai bay is too far away

4500km from Bay of Bengal

Also need to transit Malacca Straits

CV-16 is out of position 4-5 days sailing

In 1999 kargil war China send 40 x F7PG with M11 missiles within 24 hours

Ammunition ships were docking at Karachi port 2 weeks after the stand off, now China Is strong

Either way if they don’t help, Pakistan can take Indians if they do it will make it easier for Pakistan

Beijing and Islamabad are talking

IL-78 tankers from Southern India have reached LOC

Looks like they will try and even the score today against PAF

If the situation escalates, PLA will defintely come one way or another. It knows that if Pakistan is sufficiently pressured, nukes will be used. And it isn't going to sit on the sidelines while the subcontinent ruins itself for the future. There are direct channels between PLA and Pakistan Army, wouldn't surprise me if they had some input before launching the retaliation strike as well.

In the best case, India backs down without further bloodshed. If war is started, interfering will save many lives.

Edit: regarding the pictures, they have been posted several times in this thread already. Whatever that plane was, it's clear that the first and second ones are not the same. Engine is positioned completely different and the sizes don't match
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
China's got too much invested in Pakistan to let India destroy at the scale they will if an all out war were to somehow start. So China here will be a HUGE factor in forcing both sides to settle down. China definitely cannot assist with naval backup. If Indian navy is adamant, a single fleet from PLAN won't do that much difference and will probably result in huge cost of lives and equipment for both sides, all while further escalating the issue to involving China too. Also PLAN needs everything it has in SCS and the East sea and continuing to keep their subs on their usual routine camping missions with boomers targeting the US and her allies in case of any western adventurism while PLAN is busy in Indian Ocean. China will show support in different ways and de-escalate the entire thing if it does anything at all.

If nukes are even presented as real options, China will definitely step in to stop the fight with a threat of nuclear attack on India. This will force India to back down from conventional victory because China knows a conventional victory to India certainly means Pakistani nukes will be used in a final stand on India and India will respond by totally annihilating Pakistan and throwing the entire region into chaos. US wetdream scenario. Therefore to prevent Pakistan from going nuclear, they need to prevent India from all out war which they almost certainly will win. Since conventional war with India will be out of the question and make things worse, the last resort would be to calmly make it clear that China will not allow its western regions to be a radiation filled landmass and if it were to go that way, they can make sure India will end up like Pakistan.

Everyone noticed how uncharacteristically silent all these western powers are over this apart from reporting the usual news stories? No official statements or push for de-escalation. Usually at this point, if it were some country or "regime" they are unfriendly with, these boys would have been moaning about how aggressive and violent that regime is and how utterly intolerable it is.... they must execute military action and regime change.I mean remember all those exaggerated and downright invented crimes of the dozen or so countries and movements they've already ruined and killed in the past five or so decades?? China so much as officially issues a peaceful claim to islands that historically was recognised as belonging to Imperial China, becomes an 6 year long international campaign calling China hyperaggressive/ the new colonialist/ and every disgusting crap they themselves were are ARE guilty of?? Why are normal people so happy to see through this blatant double standard? Our common enemies are obvious but our pride makes us fight each other because those guys set us against ourselves... remember where all this Pakistan - India problem started with a calculated division of the colony when independence was given.

Truth is they've nothing to lose with an all out India - Pakistan war and truthfully, they've much to gain. China didn't bite the bait with the China vs India 2017 + 2018 war so seems like less pressure forcing these two countries down that path. The only losers here will be Pak, India, and China. Don't be their pawns people. Calm your pride. All this is assuming Modi isn't already some political prostitute and working towards calamity for Asia. So far India hasn't fired back but it seems like their troops are being mobilised. The usual suspects are back at their best game again and again Asians are biting the bait like idiots.
 
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Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
China's got too much invested in Pakistan to let India destroy at the scale they will if an all out war were to somehow start. So China here will be a HUGE factor in forcing both sides to settle down. China definitely cannot assist with naval backup. If Indian navy is adamant, a single fleet from PLAN won't do that much difference and will probably result in huge cost of lives and equipment for both sides, all while further escalating the issue to involving China too. Also PLAN needs everything it has in SCS and the East sea and continuing to keep their subs on their usual routine camping missions with boomers targeting the US and her allies in case of any western adventurism while PLAN is busy in Indian Ocean. China will show support in different ways and de-escalate the entire thing if it does anything at all.

India's whole navy only has 6 DDGs, of whom only 3 are somewhat area defense capable. The other 5 IN destroyers are 054A sized.

A normal strength PLAN fleet usually has 6 area defense DDGs, 2 anti shipping DDGs and about a dozen 054A. Two fleets can be sent along with ships already in the region to be absolutely safe.

The navy is not that needed to "defend" first island chain because they aren't at war with the west or even at hostility with the majority of them. They just track US formations in their spare time as practice and to announce themselves. They're not camping because they absolutely have to camp, but because they have nothing better to do.

Naval blockade is one of the easier things to do and it could go a long way towards forcing India back to the negotiation table.
 

Dizasta1

Senior Member
It seems as though the indians didn't think this so-called "strike" ... through. Bottom-line is that this strike could or still may translate into a full blown war. If that ever occurs (God forbid), then we have the makings of a trigger point for a potentially lethal World War - lll. I can say with clear certainty that Pakistan doesn't want war, given that it has a comprehensive plan for expanding its economic growth via CPEC and has for the first time in decades, a fully democratic, responsible and accountable government in place. China doesn't want war either, with its BRI expansion, globally. Even india, with its belligerence, doesn't seek war as it's economy has everything to lose when compared to Pakistan. However, America is a different story. With its failing economy, it's constant state of war in one country or another and it's theft of other country's state-assets. They American government has been pushing for war with Russia for quite some time now. If it weren't for restraint on the part of the Russian Federation, we would have already witnessed World War - lll turn this planet into a dust bowl. So does Britain, who seems to get all huffy puffy when America and the Russian Federation lock horns. With its circus brexit commotion, and it's economy teetering on exit from the European Union. They too want war, albeit in a scenario where the "West" defeats the "East" and becomes the only standing hegemony to rule the world. Then of course there is the lap-dog of America & Britain, A.K.A Saudi regime, which seems to have a rather unhealthy fixation/obsession with the destruction of Iran. It's unhealthy because the Saudi regime and it's elite class, fund groups in foreign countries, to spread their Wahhabi agenda. And this is what Pakistan MUST watch out for. For I can understand that Pakistan needs the Saudi money, but make sure that you're the one who kicks the Saudis to the curb, not the other way round. Because if Pakistan's leadership thinks otherwise, then just remember who funds these JeM and LeT groups that seem to be a parasitic nuisance residing in Pakistan.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Truth is they've nothing to lose with an all out India - Pakistan war and truthfully, they've much to gain. China didn't bite the bait with the China vs India 2017 + 2018 war so seems like less pressure forcing these two countries down that path. The only losers here will be Pak, India, and China. Don't be their pawns people. Calm your pride. All this is assuming Modi isn't already some political prostitute and working towards calamity for Asia. So far India hasn't fired back but it seems like their troops are being mobilised. The usual suspects are back at their best game again and again Asians are biting the bait like idiots.

I say this and put more blame on him and his party because of their intense nationalism. You could say Chinese nationalism is high these days but it hasn't steered itself into war despite Japan, USA, Vietnam, Philippines, and India disputes in recent years. Even formally resolving border issues with Russia. China avoided direct conflict every single time and has all these powerful groups encouraged by the western agenda to flare up tensions that were historically eased. Modi on the other hand is now responding with force. One could argue India is reasonably responding to a Pakistani sourced act of terror and this is true. But why not discuss the issue diplomatically with some neutral mitigators like the UN or any other group both nations are happy with? Why act in such a way that it would almost certainly result in military action from Pakistan? When the US purposefully destroyed the Chinese embassy in Serbia with their tomahawk missile/s, China understood the reality and saw through the excuses but also understood the consequences of certain actions. That wasn't the place or time for retribution. Short term easing of damaged pride is not worth long term prosperity and genuine prospects of creating a better world for everyone. The ends rarely do justify the means but in that case it does. Now if India were to respond in any serious scale, we should watch which nation does what very closely and analyse their motives.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
India's whole navy only has 6 DDGs, of whom only 3 are somewhat area defense capable. The other 5 IN destroyers are 054A sized.

A normal strength PLAN fleet usually has 6 area defense DDGs, 2 anti shipping DDGs and about a dozen 054A. Two fleets can be sent along with ships already in the region to be absolutely safe.

The navy is not that needed to "defend" first island chain because they aren't at war with the west or even at hostility with the majority of them. They just track US formations in their spare time as practice and to announce themselves. They're not camping because they absolutely have to camp, but because they have nothing better to do.

Naval blockade is one of the easier things to do and it could go a long way towards forcing India back to the negotiation table.

For reasons I mentioned in my last two posts, the worst thing China can do now is get directly involved. China's current inaction despite India mobilising gives me confidence in Chinese leaders' understanding of the situation. The hare brained move is to go macho now. Even if China can easily win military engagements, it doesn't mean it should and nor is it the best move for long term outcomes. China could have defeated Vietnam and Philippines with little effort when they gave China the chance many times in the past, especially 70s to 90s for Vietnam after the Sino-Vietnam war. These nations are not part of NATO or under any US security obligation. If aggressive nations like Turkey or Russia was in China position in those times, the world map would be different today. Look at how Russia went in Georgia and Crimea... no nonsense 0-100 violence. Turkey shooting down a Russian attack plane that barely intruded into their territory while they invade into deep Greek airspace weekly. These cowboys are the real ones not interested in anyone else's wellbeing or their short term reputations. If China were truly ruled by idiotic despots like the narratives claim, we would have seen a lot more violence in Asia already.

We have not heard any reports of China mobilising anything. This is because getting involved conventionally will be worse than not getting involved at all. The only thing preventing WW3 here are nukes.
 
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