2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos
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Miragedriver
Brigadier
Some pictures off of the news services
Ukrainian soldiers sit on top of military vehicles in a field about 44 miles from the eastern Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, where the Ukrainian regional administration building was seized by pro-Russian activists
People sing the Ukrainian national anthem during a pro-Ukraine rally in the eastern Ukrainian city of Lugansk
Ukrainian BTR-70’s drive in the Donetsk region on the road from Donetsk to Odessa on Tuesday. Ukraine has begun what it calls an 'anti-terrorist operation' to root out pro-Russian 'separatists' in the east of the country
Pro-Russian protesters wearing gas masks stormed the police building, setting fire to it
Ukrainian soldiers sit on top of military vehicles in a field about 44 miles from the eastern Ukrainian town of Slavyansk, where the Ukrainian regional administration building was seized by pro-Russian activists
People sing the Ukrainian national anthem during a pro-Ukraine rally in the eastern Ukrainian city of Lugansk
Ukrainian BTR-70’s drive in the Donetsk region on the road from Donetsk to Odessa on Tuesday. Ukraine has begun what it calls an 'anti-terrorist operation' to root out pro-Russian 'separatists' in the east of the country
Pro-Russian protesters wearing gas masks stormed the police building, setting fire to it
Miragedriver
Brigadier
I imagine that I must still be a Cold Warrior. Old habits are hard to break.
Russia's "article 5": an attack on a Russian is an attack on Russia
Lavrov has passed this message to the world, and to remove any ambiguitiy, he specified an attack like Georgia did in south ossethia would certainly get response from russia.
this has pretty much made Kiev's "anti-terrerrists" operation in the east ukraine a no go, what is coming next?
Lavrov has passed this message to the world, and to remove any ambiguitiy, he specified an attack like Georgia did in south ossethia would certainly get response from russia.
this has pretty much made Kiev's "anti-terrerrists" operation in the east ukraine a no go, what is coming next?
Mr T
Senior Member
Re: Russia's "article 5": an attack on a Russian is an attack on Russia
Really, trying to regain control of your own territory is now grounds for invasion by Russia? What a hypocrite, Russia did everything it could to stop intervention against Syria, even when Assad was using chemical weapons against his own people.
Really, trying to regain control of your own territory is now grounds for invasion by Russia? What a hypocrite, Russia did everything it could to stop intervention against Syria, even when Assad was using chemical weapons against his own people.
MwRYum
Major
Honestly, nothing from the start is really about "democracy", it's all Realpolitik, which for those in Eastern Ukraine believe the new power in Kiev will give them a very raw deal, and they'd be better off with Moscow. It's pretty hard to convince them otherwise because the first thing those Bandera freaks took power, is to strip Russian its official language status.
With Eastern Ukraine is in de-facto civil war status, politically-motivated murders is the norm in such environment, that's the sad but hard fact of it.
You should know there's a bigger picture of what is happening in Ukraine, there're bigger players than Ukrainians. Russia muscles in because this is too close to comfort, in the past they didn't because they were too weakened.
In short, Cold War Round 2.
And Syria? Even the UN finds the culprit behind the chemical attack "inconclusive" because both sides of the conflict have the ability to do that, and crazy enough to do that. Of course, if you 100% buy the Western media you'd believe it's Assad's forces doing but seriously, why'd Assad risk Western intervention when the government forces finally gaining upper hand in the war?
Russia's support for Assad is also Realpolitik - access of port for the Russian Navy, amongst other things.
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nicky
Junior Member
Putin's position is clear: US supports changes of regimes in the neighboring countries (Ukrane, Georgia) that are explicitly anti-Russian. That simply can't be tolerated.
The irony is also that Saakashvili in Tiflis was actually brought to power by the then Minister of Foreign Relations RF Igor Ivanov and Timoshenko in Kiev made her fortune signing a gas contact with Putin.
P.S.
"The military could speed up deployment of a land-based missile defense shield in Europe to hem in a resurgent Russia, the Navy 3-star in charge of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency said in early April, reports Navy Times on 19APR14."
This was always a Russian argument usually denied by US negotiators at Strategic Arms talks.
The irony is also that Saakashvili in Tiflis was actually brought to power by the then Minister of Foreign Relations RF Igor Ivanov and Timoshenko in Kiev made her fortune signing a gas contact with Putin.
P.S.
"The military could speed up deployment of a land-based missile defense shield in Europe to hem in a resurgent Russia, the Navy 3-star in charge of the U.S. Missile Defense Agency said in early April, reports Navy Times on 19APR14."
This was always a Russian argument usually denied by US negotiators at Strategic Arms talks.
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Broccoli
Senior Member
Russian government is clearly takin notes from he's books.
Looks familiar?
And for China he suggests...
Mr T
Senior Member
Maybe Putin could see a good psychiatrist rather than destabilise one of his neighbours because he feels insecure?
Largely caused by Russia. Russia has the power to end it by saying it won't intervene. Repeatedly threatening action emboldens the rebels and will mean the murders keep happening.
Whatever. The point is that Assad has committed worse crimes, whether conventional or otherwise, so Russia is being wildly inconsistent to say the least by insisting on non-intervention in Syria but threatening intervention in Ukraine. But I'm not terribly interested in why Russia is trying to cause trouble in Ukraine, the fact it is doing so is the issue.
1. The US has the right to modify its foreign policy. There is no requirement for it to forever support a foreign government, and it also has the right to support a new government.
2. The new governments in Georgia and Ukraine were not anti-Russian from the outset. Both wanted to have good relations with Russia. They just wanted to be able to make up their own minds without having to do what the Kremlin wanted.
3. The current Ukrainian government is a provisional government only and will stand down once the May election has been held. Ukrainians can elect a pro-Russian president if they want. However, if they decide to vote in a president who is hostile to Russia, that is Russia's fault for the way it has been chopping and gobbling up bits of Ukraine. Russia has no right to veto an election in another country because they're concerned the new administration will be annoyed with it.
At the moment, Poroshenko has a big lead in the opinion polls. I see nothing to suggest he would refuse to work with Russia, provided Russia work with Ukraine and stop trying to destabilise it. If anything given he was born in the Odessa region, I would say he's Russia's best chance of having a Ukrainian president they could work with.
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