2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

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SinoSoldier

Colonel
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

Lets just hope that Ukraine doesn't turn into another Syria or Libya civil war.

That is unlikely to happen; what's fueling the situation is the inability of the regional governments to reach an agreement with the one run by Yanukovich and the pressuring done by the Western democracies, which has an effect on its people. This is different from the case of Syria and Libya, in which foreign entities with little respect or care for the "humanitarian" excuse plastered by the US and EU are running the show. This is not a case of terrorism or foreign-backed regime change.

Of course, if anything goes aloof, Ukraine should have no problem sending a couple of Oplot divisions across into Poland.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

Putin is a Survivor. He will find a way to use the situation, even if Eastern Ukraine becomes a Russian Protectorate and he engineers a conflict demanding Russian intervention. Remember the Russian Fleet has a Naval base in Sevastopol. The home of the Black Sea Fleet. That's Something Putin And Russia are not likely to surrender.

Sending military units into Ukraine would only serve to fuel the hatred between the ethnic groups and potentially bring political consequences close to, if not into, the Russian mainland. What Russia needs now is a chance for it to be appear neutral in the eyes of all Ukrainians in order to have any hope of Ukraine being a stable parter for Moscow.

However, the country driving this split, at least politically, would be Poland. They actively are pressuring sanctions against Ukraine and is seemingly doing every single step to further isolate the Ukrainian government from the Western governments, which of course causes even greater rifts and bloodshed, in hopes of a change of regime in its neighbor. If Russia is to theoretically engineer a quick and decisive move into Poland, such as an armored thrust followed by airstrikes on government positions, it would serve to quickly shut down Polish intervention.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

If Russia is to theoretically engineer a quick and decisive move into Poland, such as an armored thrust followed by airstrikes on government positions, it would serve to quickly shut down Polish intervention.
Which would be as foolish, if not more so, than Russia going into the Ukraine with troops.

We do not need such talk on SD. It will only lead to high emotion, arguments, and trouble.

Please keep such suggestions/hypotheticals off of the threads.

NO WAR DRUMS
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

One day the government and the rebels sign an agreement. The next day the rebels violate it. But the North Western part of the Ukraine is provided with natural gas by pipes crossing the South Eastern part. So the government can deny gas to the rebels. Then discussions can begin again. There is no immediate opportunity for civil war as was usual in former times. Think of that bloody matter in 1861-65.
 

delft

Brigadier
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

I just found this article in The Daily Telegraph:
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Ukraine's economy more fragile than its uneasy peace
Country faces threat of financial collapse which could ignite a meltdown in Russia

By Liam Halligan9:30PM GMT 22 Feb 2014

It would appear that a deal has been struck in Ukraine. We must hope that it holds. The plan is to hold early presidential elections, by December 2014, while immediately returning to the 2004 constitution, which bolsters the power of the country’s parliament.

It remains to be seen if these concessions will placate those who have protested so angrily and forcefully against incumbent president Victor Yanukovych.

While keeping our fingers crossed for calm in Kiev, we should also watch closely the reaction of the many millions of Ukrainians in the Russian-speaking south and east of the country, who voted for Yanukovych as their president back in 2010.

That election, let us not forget, was judged by the internationally-respected and western-backed Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe to be “fair”, “truly competitive” and an “impressive display” of democracy.

[ Graphic showing economic growth 2010-'13 ]

More than 70 people were killed in the Ukrainian capital last week. A country of 46m, and roughly two-and-a-half times bigger than France, Ukraine has just seen its most violent episode since the Second World War.
These protests began relatively peacefully, back in November, when Yanukovych refused to sign a trade deal with the European Union.
Again, many Ukrainians opposed this deal, not least because it demanded full market access for EU goods, without in turn granting Ukraine permission to export much of its farm produce to western Europe.

In recent weeks, though, these protests have spiralled well beyond questions of trading links, mutating into a fully-blown battle across the deep and ancient cultural and ethnic fault-line that divides this sprawling country’s Russia-facing regions from its Ukrainian-speaking west and north.
History will no doubt judge Yanukovych harshly – and rightly so. The Ukrainian president has often acted in a thuggish and unjust manner. Reports of police marksmen taking aim at protesters through telescopic sights in recent days clearly raise very serious questions indeed – questions that must not be brushed under the carpet.
At the time of writing, an uneasy calm hangs over “the Maidan” – the main square in central Kiev, the heart of the struggle. But the protesters could yet regroup - manning the barricades and taking to the international airwaves once more, in a bid to secure an immediate Yanukovych resignation.
It may seem callous amid all this recent bloodshed to consider economic and financial issues. But consider them we must. For even if Ukraine’s fragile peace is maintained, the country is racing towards financial collapse regardless.
Such a calamity could not only spark renewed hardship and yet more violence across Ukraine itself. There are growing fears this country could also act as an economic tinderbox, causing a systemic meltdown in neighbouring Russia, emerging markets more broadly, and possibly even the West.
For while these concessions from Yanukovych have hopefully pulled Ukraine back from the brink of further rioting, and even civil war, the country is still heading towards bankruptcy and sovereign default. One reason is that, even before these protests began, the Ukrainian economy was on its uppers.
During the Soviet era, Ukraine built on its traditional agricultural base, with the central planners developing a sizeable state-led industrial sector that specialised in coal, steel and some of the USSR’s most complex engineering. The rapid privatisation and consumer-led growth of the past two post-Soviet decades have since transformed the shape of the Ukrainian economy, with the service sector enjoying rapid growth, so that it now accounts for three-fifths of GDP, while employing seven out of every 10 workers. In principle, Ukraine has a lot going for it – not least supremely fertile arable land. Yet the agricultural sector, which should be world class, is currently just 10pc of national income, given slow modernisation and insecure land ownership rights. Having said that, the population is well-educated, with huge mathematical and scientific acumen. The high-tech sector is particularly strong, with Ukraine ranking in the world’s top five in terms of the absolute number of IT specialists, ahead of many countries with much bigger populations.
Having expanded by a healthy 4.1pc in 2010, and 5.2pc the following year, Ukraine slumped to just 0.2pc growth in 2012, as the combination of a weak eurozone and a sluggish Russian economy cast a pall over this nascent capitalist society. In 2013, the Ukrainian economy was even weaker, registering no growth at all.
So long before these protests started, Ukraine was in economic trouble. World prices for steel, its biggest export, have fallen by half since the Chinese economy began to slow in 2011. As a result, the dollar-pegged national currency, the hryvnia, became seriously overvalued. Successive governments, trying to curry favour with a restive electorate, have spent heavily, resulting in last year’s budget deficit coming in at a chunky 5pc of GDP. Ukraine has also consistently refused to cut back on massive energy subsidies, despite the constant demands of overseas creditors, not least the International Monetary Fund.
The result is that, for quite a few years, Ukraine has been borrowing from private creditors at increasingly onerous interest rates. While the country’s total debt burden should be manageable at around 38pc of GDP, almost a quarter of the $40bn total must be repaid over the next 12-18 months.
Which brings us to the nub of the issue. Yanukovych is widely seen, and with some justification, as “Russia’s man”. But even if the protesters delight Western capitals by getting rid of him, Russia is still likely to be a big part of the solution to a restoration of financial stability in Kiev, in turn preventing Ukraine from upending any number of financial markets elsewhere.
Russia’s trump card is its massive $500bn war-chest of foreign exchange reserves –the world’s fourth-biggest haul. Before Christmas, Moscow agreed to earmark $15bn to buy newly-issued Ukrainian sovereign debt over the next two years, so allowing Kiev to roll over its obligations.
An initial $3bn slice was bought last month, bringing yields down to more manageable levels.
As the protests in Kiev have escalated, though, successive Russian bond purchases have been shelved. Moscow has also since begun to make noises that it may only buy further Ukrainian government paper if Kiev pays back the $2.8bn it apparently owes Moscow for subsidised imports of natural gas. “We will fulfil what we have promised to Ukraine,” said Russian finance minister Anton Siluanov ominously, while president Putin was meeting Yanukovych during the Sochi Olympics. “But we would like the Ukrainian side to comply with its obligations, too.”
The EU has talked about “putting a financial package on the table”. US secretary of state John Kerry has told the world “a big carrot” is in the works. Little western largesse has transpired. Moscow, meanwhile, has suspended the purchase of an additional $2bn Ukrainian eurobond, placed last Monday. No one is quite sure whether the Russians will buy it or not. Meanwhile, the financial future of Ukraine hangs in the balance. As does the future of Yanukovych.
On Friday, Standard & Poor’s downgraded Ukraine to CCC, just two notches above default. “We now believe it is likely Ukraine will default in the absence of significantly favourable changes in circumstances, which we do not anticipate,” the ratings agency said.
Even if the political truce holds, Ukraine needs $15bn-$20bn of hard cash to avoid financial implosion – and Russia looks like the only realistic source of such funds.
Tensions remain very high in the Maidan square this weekend, across Kiev and Ukraine as a whole. Yet tensions are rising across the world too, as western and eastern leaders seem determined, between them, to provoke a Cold War-style stand-off.

A - temporary - split of the Ukraine might well be fatal to the EU while not hurting Russia significantly, as The Saker suggested. We live in interesting times.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

This is a long video...but it is worth watching.

Say what you will about the protesters, but they have a commitment to their cause and are brave. This is taken on the street during one of the battles and shows them holding their ground and pulling their wounded and dead comrades out of the line of fire, even as more of them go down.

They desperately needed return and suppressing fire on the positions of the government forces pinning them down.


[video=youtube;qSvj8F_Br4M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSvj8F_Br4M[/video]

From about 8-10 minutes to about 26 minutes they are penned down and lose a lot of people, then at 27 minutes or so, they begin advancing. Amazing to watch.
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

With regards to the Ukraine, things will need to settle down and whatever government finally runs the show will need to get people back to work and into a routine. Once people begin to work, then commerce and trade can resume.

There is an old saying that “if merchandise cross borders then troops do not”…..
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

It will be interesting to see if (ex)President Yanukovych will try to appoint an exile-government in the East-Ukraine and proclaim an independent state.

Things are so out of control it is difficult to speculate what will happen next. Like the uprising again “president” Maduro in Venezuela.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

It will be interesting to see if (ex)President Yanukovych will try to appoint an exile-government in the East-Ukraine and proclaim an independent state.

If that's the case, why doesn't anyone know where he is? If he was going to make a stand, he would be all over the media from a stronghold somewhere.

The fact he has disappeared (and reportedly dismissed his security detail) suggests he has done a runner because he thinks he'll be arrested if he sticks about. Going to Eastern Ukraine wouldn't necessarily help because there are still many people that think he's a murdering crook and would try to grab him.

Even if he does resurface somewhere in Ukraine, the fact he has fled will have seriously damaged his image, even amongst many of his supporters.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: World News Thread & Breaking News!!

If that's the case, why doesn't anyone know where he is? If he was going to make a stand, he would be all over the media from a stronghold somewhere.

The fact he has disappeared (and reportedly dismissed his security detail) suggests he has done a runner because he thinks he'll be arrested if he sticks about. Going to Eastern Ukraine wouldn't necessarily help because there are still many people that think he's a murdering crook and would try to grab him.
The Ukrainian parliment has voted to arrest him on the charge of murder for the deaths of all of those Ukrainains who died last week at the hands of his security forces.

One thing you did not see or hearin the fighting...from the video I posted earlier taken on the streets during one of the heaviest engagements...is the lack of crew serviced and large automatic weapons.

My own friends there tell me that the military flatly refused to become involved.

Anyhow, Yanukovych has been impeached and is no linger Prsident, and he's on the run now.

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ABC News said:
Ukraine's acting government issued a warrant Monday for the arrest of President Viktor Yanukovych, last reportedly seen in the pro-Russian Black Sea peninsula of Crimea, accusing him of mass crimes against protesters who stood up for months against his rule.

Calls are mounting in Ukraine to put Yanukovych on trial, after a tumultuous presidency in which he amassed powers, enriched his allies and cracked down on protesters. Anger boiled over last week after snipers attacked protesters in the bloodiest violence in Ukraine's post-Soviet history.

The turmoil has turned this strategically located country of 46 million inside out over the past few days, raising fears that it could split apart. The parliament speaker is suddenly nominally in charge of a country whose economy is on the brink of default and whose loyalties are torn between Europe and longtime ruler Russia.

"The state treasury has been torn apart, the country has been brought to bankruptcy," Arseniy Yatsenyuk, a leader of the protest movement and prominent lawmaker whose name is being floated as a possibility for prime minister, said in parliament Monday.

The acting finance minister said Monday that the country needs $35 billion (25.5 billion euros) to finance government needs this year and next and expressed hope that Europe or the United States would help.

Ukraine's acting interior minister, Arsen Avakhov, said on his official Facebook page Monday that a warrant has been issued for the arrest of Yanukovych and several other officials for the "mass killing of civilians."
 
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