Hard to say, really, but from what I can gather of the history of Chinese submarine encounters, I get the impression that the PLAN may not be that precious about the specific acoustic signatures of their submarines, maybe because they presume or know for a fact that that information has already been compromised. Alternatively, this may have been either a stunt to demonstrate the sub’s capabilities (even if it was detected we don’t know the parameters of detection and thus its implications), or perhaps an effort to gather information on the anti-sub capabilities of potential adversaries. Heck if we want to get really wild maybe they were trying to give off decoy information on the sub’s acoustics. We could keep speculating a number of other possible explanations, but I don’t think that is a very productive exercise.
09III/09IV (093/094) Nuclear Submarine Thread
- Thread starter SinoSoldier
- Start date
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
I believe it was SCMP that came out with the story where during the Zhuhai Air Show when the J-31 first flew there that US C-17s that were displayed there were able to detect the J-31 with it radars parked on the tarmac. I bet they also believe fighter radar is 360 degrees like shown in Top Gun. There was a news article somewhere that charged the J-20 has no stealth because you can hear the engines?
From my layman understanding, the whole thing just doesn't make sense.
1. East China sea is too shallow for Nuclear sub. Why should China purposely sent a nuclear submarine there unless they have full confidence that it won't be easily detected.
2. If the jap claimed they detected and tracked them for 2 days, surely the sensors on the sub would have warned the crew that they were being tracked.
3. If point 2 is true, then it doesn't make sense for the nuclear submarine to carry on and sail near the shore of diaoyu islands. This will make themselves more vulnerable.
1. East China sea is too shallow for Nuclear sub. Why should China purposely sent a nuclear submarine there unless they have full confidence that it won't be easily detected.
2. If the jap claimed they detected and tracked them for 2 days, surely the sensors on the sub would have warned the crew that they were being tracked.
3. If point 2 is true, then it doesn't make sense for the nuclear submarine to carry on and sail near the shore of diaoyu islands. This will make themselves more vulnerable.
Or they simply didn't care if it was detected, especially since they planned to get very close to a Japanese-controlled coastline anyway.
Point 2 is categorically not true, especially in the setting of passive detection and tracking of the 093B, which is almost certainly how this sub was being tracked.
Hyperwarp
Captain
Again... why on wouldn't they care about a 093B being detected? If it was a 091 or 093 I could understand. And isn't it the purpose of the SSK fleet to patrol warm shallow waters? I am simply baffled here. Even if a 095 is secretly in service why would you pull a stunt like that with your 2nd best SSN?
The 09III was heading north west meaning it was returning from the Western Pacific. Chances are it was returning from a deep-water patrol and PLAN leadership ordered them to sail past Diaoyu on their way back as an affirmation of sovereignty and demonstration of confidence.
Additionally, the true acoustic signature of a submarine is only revealed if the skipper allows it to be revealed. If he knew he was going into pre-monitored waters beforehand, he very possibly could have told his crew to make loud noises or turn off any active vibration dampers to inflate his vessel's acoustic signature.
Again, who cares about ANY sub detection in peacetime? Especially an SSN that is deliberately plodding into enemy-controlled territory to make a point about sovereignty. You seem to have the impression that the PLAN is somehow giving away some kind of state secret by letting its 093B be detected. A given sub's unique acoustic signature is not a state secret; sooner or later it WILL be recorded by some opposing detector, and the PLAN will not ever know if and when one of its subs' unique signature is ever recorded. The point of a sub isn't to withhold its unique signature from potential adversaries for as long as possible (the only way to ensure that is to never leave base), but rather to hide itself effectively in general. That is, assuming it doesn't actually want to be detected, which is definitely a point of contention in this case.
manqiangrexue
Brigadier
I don't now about telling the crew to make noises purposefully but I always thought it would be wise to design submarines with normal operational mode and full stealth mode. This way, when operating missions such "show of force" exercises, participating in international exercises, going to places you've announced you'd go, etc... you don't give potential hostile forces or even curious friendly forces a chance to determine your true level of stealth. Then, if things get heated, obviously, you could go full stealth mode, confident that any intelligence gathered on your sub while it was in normal op mode would not aid your enemies in detecting you when you switch to war mode. You might not even make this public if you did have this feature in your sub so that the intelligence gathered might give your enemies a false sense of security or even throw off their ability to detect you when it counts.
But this is all what I think would be reasonable. Is there any evidence of this on any sub from any nation?
Not sure if it's an official "mode" but an Australian sub's captain ordered his crew to intentionally make a racket in the prelude to an ASW exercise with an American Burke. This included banging pots and pans in the galley, and when they decided to announce their victory to the USN destroyer, they decided to play a pop song over the loudspeakers. Thus, there are a multitude of ways for a submarine's crew to intentionally make noise.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Yes but I believe what manqianrexue was referring to was the submarine screws (propellers) that sound it makes under water that gets recorded. That's the critical intelligence that opposing navy would use as data to track subs.