054B/new generation frigate

tphuang said:

054B is significantly larger than 054A and it will have significantly higher power demand in the future. There are significant advantages in power efficiency & power system usage for IEPS over CODAD. If IEPS tech and the new 20 cylinder 9MW+ engine is ready then why not wait for that?

If you consider the jump from 053H3 to 054A in capability, are you seeing the same jump from 054A to 054B? If not, then do you anticipate the current power generation on 054B allow for that?

is PLAN building this class just for a 4 boat transition or for a long production run?
If former, then why are they not trying out a new generation propulsion with it?
If latter, then do you see 054B to still be a desirable design in 15 years?

remember, 054A enters service more than 15 years ago and it is still a capable platform even now.

If I think of the capabilities you would need by 2035, it would seem like power generation is a huge requirement for anything they would want to do.

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tphuang said:

Let me put it this way.

054B is noticeably larger than 054A, but has the same amount of armament. The original thought that I had for 054B is that it needs to have a new propulsion to sustain faster speed than 054A (go at 29 knots) and more important to provide the cabin spacing and such needed for long deployment. And given the larger size, that like means it is designed with more cabin comfort in mind. So, you have a larger platform but without more firepower. It doesn't make sense to have a platform like this if it isn't equipped with a more powerful propulsion that can allow for future upgrades in power consumption. So, what is exactly the point?

Why don't you just build more 054A if you need more number? If you don't need more frigates right away, then why not wait for a couple of more years for when your 9.5 MW diesel engine and IEPS tech + latest high discharge battery pack tech become ready?

I look at FREMM, it uses CODLAG with 32MW GT+ 4 2.2MW diesel engine. So, just 40-41MW combined power. if you have 36-38MW pure diesel IEPS with battery storage, that is actually plenty of power for probably 29 knots and you can sustain several MW for sensors and weapons.

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Wrought said:

Most likely answer is that new propulsion systems are some combination of immature and/or too expensive for PLAN tastes. And 054A->054B is obviously a much smaller jump compared to 053H3 because that was quite simply a hopelessly obsolete design. Huge leaps are possible when you are way behind the curve. Needless to say, the situation today is very different.

It remains to be seen whether 054B is a transition or production class, but both have reasonable justifications. Depends on how conservative PLAN is feeling. My guess is they believe they've squeezed all they can out of 054A, so they need to move on now. And yes, 054B will be fine in 15 years. There is always a place for less advanced hulls, just like how PLAN continues to operate many such hulls today. Not every mission requires the latest and greatest in cutting-edge surface combantants. Perfect should never be the enemy of good—or at least, good enough.

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tphuang said:

At this point, it doesn’t offer enough capability jump over 054A. So if 32 cell VLS, 27 knots and hq10 is sufficient for PLAN in 15 years, why don’t they just build more 054A?

Why build a larger and more expensive platform that does essentially the same task?

if PLAN is upsizing the hull, then it clearly want some option to expand its mission set. It wants a platform that is not maxed out. Maybe a lo option to 055 on longer deployment. At some point, PLAN may want a smaller warship that can go 32 knots since it will have nuclear carriers. And then what?

It seems to me quite silly to go with a new hull and still use a relatively under powered propulsion thats not optimized for modern warfare.

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