054/A FFG Thread II


daifo

Senior Member
Registered Member
Hmmm...if she had such serious sea sickness, why isn't she in the Army or other branches (where her skills and knowledge could still be put to use without vomits)? Couldn't the PLAN simply enlist folks who do not have sea sickness?

Most young people in China likely don't have experience sailing in the ocean especially rough seas? After deployment they will just see if the person can adapt or be re-assign.
 

jvodan

New Member
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Hmmm...if she had such serious sea sickness, why isn't she in the Army or other branches (where her skills and knowledge could still be put to use without vomits)? Couldn't the PLAN simply enlist folks who do not have sea sickness?
I think it is part of the narrative, in the face of adversity, despite personal discomfort she rises to the task.
 

Helius

Junior Member
Registered Member
Not sure if this is a new photo, but it's interesting to me because this is the first time I've noticed them actually showing the labelling on the canisters. Nothing we don't already know, it being obviously the H/AJK16 made by SAST. Usually they'd blur those details out -

PLAN Type 054A missile load 2022-10.jpg
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Surprising interview, according to the interview of Song Jigang, captain of the missile area of the Bingzhou ship, in last year's exercise, the command set the 054A radar damage to be unusable, and completely relied on the data transmitted by the AWACS ,HQ-16 hit the target. Considering that the AWACS cannot provide fire-control-level radar data, this seems to imply that the HQ-16 does have an active seeker to capture targets on its own.
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Not really. People cannot assume that every SARH guided missile uses dumb illuminators like SPG-62 that requires an external radar to direct the illuminators. Illuminator like SPG-62 are one way --- they send out a beam, and they themselves do not process the reflection of that beam. These devices are not true radars, as a Radar by its acronym means RAdio Detection And Ranging. They need another radar which is in this case, the SPY-1, to detect, track and range the target, and to queue the illuminator. The reflections is for the radio guided seeker of the missile to home in.

The target illuminators for Buk/HQ-16 are not dumb. They can track targets and illuminate them at the same time. This means that the illuminator shines the target, the reflections also goes back to the illuminator, which then tracks and ranges the target at the same time, while the reflections also goes to the radio seeker of the missile to home in. So these illuminators, unlike the SPG-62, are true radars.

The main search radar of the Type 054A, the Type 382, which is based and works on the same principle as the Fregat used by the Soviet Navy, by itself does not provide enough resolution and rate of update necessary for fire control. It finds the targets and sends the data to the combat computer which assigns each of the four illuminators to independently track, engage and illuminate the targets. These illuminators generate their own fire control data to track and range their targets and to keep it lit without additional help of the search radar beyond initializing the engagement.


download (22).jpeg


Even if the main search radar is knocked down, the illuminators will continue to prosecute the already engaged targets to their conclusion. After that, they will have to depend on another radar source to find and initialize engagement on the next wave of targets, which on this case, is an AEW. But it can also be another ship through a datalink, or the ship's other secondary radars, such as the Type 364 and Type 366.

Fire control radars and illuminators work with pencil thin beams that are not suited for scanning wide swathes of the sky to search and detect objects. Search radars produce wide fan like beam patterns that will scan the sky in such wide swathes as they are turned around a full 360 degrees. Once the search radar detects the object, interrogates it with IFF, determines its hostility, it can queue the FCR or target illuminator towards the target, which then shines its thin beams to it. From then on, the search radar continues to search for more targets while the FCR tracks and sticks its beam to the target like a glue until the target is destroyed. This also works with FCRs that manage gunnery, which in this case for the Type 054A, the Type 347G radar is also used to engage aerial targets with the 76mm gun. After the target is destroyed, the search radar assigns a new set of targets to the FCRs and illuminators.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Not sure if this is a new photo, but it's interesting to me because this is the first time I've noticed them actually showing the labelling on the canisters. Nothing we don't already know, it being obviously the H/AJK16 made by SAST. Usually they'd blur those details out -

View attachment 100783

Its mentioned in SAST's website.

A bit out of the norm considering the naval missiles are usually CASIC's territory.

One thing that needs to mention. It is not the VLS itself that is the H/AJK-16. It is the very entire system itself, which consists of the VLS, the canisters, and the domed target illuminators.
 
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Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
The video doesn't play for me. Did he actually say that AWACS can't provide fire control radar level data? That it can't guide missiles all the way till the target? I mean it would make sense if that's the case, since KJ-500 operates in L band whereas most air defense radar are in S band. This would also mean they can put HQ-16s in 052D VLS without requiring those illuminators.

Also, if AWACS can guide HQ-16 close enough to a low RCS attacking missile to blow it up, then it should also be able to guide PL-15 to F-35 to be used.

Not really, as I mentioned, the HQ-16 are not active, and the shipboard illuminators themselves can track the targets on their own after they have been initially queued to the targets, and keep them lit with beams glued to the targets.

Unless the HQ-16 acquires full active capability, the 052D cannot use the HQ-16. It won't be hard to put that capability into the HQ-16, unless for some nontechnical reason.
 

test1979

New Member
Registered Member
Not really, as I mentioned, the HQ-16 are not active, and the shipboard illuminators themselves can track the targets on their own after they have been initially queued to the targets, and keep them lit with beams glued to the targets.

Unless the HQ-16 acquires full active capability, the 052D cannot use the HQ-16. It won't be hard to put that capability into the HQ-16, unless for some nontechnical reason.
The latest data of Zhuhai Air Show
HQ-16FE has a range of 160km and active/semi-active composite guidance.
The latest 054A should be equipped with this new type, and the old 054A may also be replaced.
 

Zichan

Junior Member
Registered Member
Surprising interview, according to the interview of Song Jigang, captain of the missile area of the Bingzhou ship, in last year's exercise, the command set the 054A radar damage to be unusable, and completely relied on the data transmitted by the AWACS ,HQ-16 hit the target. Considering that the AWACS cannot provide fire-control-level radar data, this seems to imply that the HQ-16 does have an active seeker to capture targets on its own.
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If the HQ-16 illuminators are anything like the Russian MR-90 Orekh, then they are tracker-illuminators. This means that once they receive target coordinates and lock on target they can continue to independently track it and guide the missiles to target. Buk TELARS have the same capability and have been a thorn in Russia’s side precisely because of this. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are being cued by NATO AEW aircraft and waiting in ambush for Russian aircraft to pass within their engagement range.

Therefore, that statement alone is no evidence of active radar homing.
 

test1979

New Member
Registered Member
If the HQ-16 illuminators are anything like the Russian MR-90 Orekh, then they are tracker-illuminators. This means that once they receive target coordinates and lock on target they can continue to independently track it and guide the missiles to target. Buk TELARS have the same capability and have been a thorn in Russia’s side precisely because of this. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are being cued by NATO AEW aircraft and waiting in ambush for Russian aircraft to pass within their engagement range.

Therefore, that statement alone is no evidence of active radar homing.
The latest data of Zhuhai Air Show
HQ-16FE has a range of 160km and active/semi-active composite guidance.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
The latest data of Zhuhai Air Show
HQ-16FE has a range of 160km and active/semi-active composite guidance.
The latest 054A should be equipped with this new type, and the old 054A may also be replaced.

That is probably what is already going to be used with the latest batch of 054A with the AESA illuminators. The new illuminators can give far superior illumination range over the old systems. This allows the missile to use the full range potential of it's airframe. This missile is about the same size as the Standard SM2, where the MR version reaches to a range of guess what also 160km with direct illumination of the target from the ship.

The active mode of the missile might be used to attack objects below the radar horizon of the illuminators. It might also present itself as an option for the 052D to use.
 

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