052C/052D Class Destroyers

Bltizo said:

(...) they are already committed to modernizing a number of its larger soviet era ships like its kirovs, kuznetsov, and slavas (...)

Click to expand...

You might want to check into the status of those Kirovs. That plan ain't gon'na obtain! And, if any project is not worth the investment, in my opinion, it's the Kuznetsov. But, hey, everyone has the same privileges when it comes to opinions.

Bltizo said:

Russia has quite a finite budget for its military, and I think they won't see much use in taking back four Sovs when they are committed to building a good number of modern frigates and are already committed to modernizing a number of its larger soviet era ships like its kirovs, kuznetsov, and slavas. Once we approach 2020 they'll start to build their planned Leader class DDG to replace their larger surface combatants.

Click to expand...

Yet, it seems, to me, that a particular nation has consistently overestimated its procurement projections and production schedules in the, very recent, past. I'll add this, of the two nations we're discussing, only one, presently, is outsourcing the production of major surface combatants. This suggests, to me, that the state of their military naval production capabilities might not be quite where they want them, particularly for a nation that had become accustomed to military industrial independence.

But, this is the PLAN Type 052 C/D forum, the former of which has recently completed its production run -hip, hip, hooray- and the latter's production is in full swing; full steam ahead!

janjak desalin said:

You might want to check into the status of those Kirovs. That plan ain't gon'na obtain! And, if any project is not worth the investment, in my opinion, it's the Kuznetsov. But, hey, everyone has the same privileges when it comes to opinions.

Click to expand...

One active (Peter the Great), one in modernization (Nakhimov), your point being? I never said they were modernizing all of their Kirovs, and given the state of the Russian navy having two out of four modernized is a good number.

Kuznetsov is worth the investment because it's the only ship that provides the Russian Navy with a core of somewhat active and trained naval aviation crew, and will be the only such ship for a decade and more until they decide to finally build a new flat top for themselves.

janjak desalin said:

Yet, it seems, to me, that a particular nation has consistently overestimated its procurement projections and production schedules in the, very recent, past. I'll add this, of the two nations we're discussing, only one, presently, is outsourcing the production of major surface combatants. This suggests, to me, that the state of their military naval production capabilities might not be quite where they want them, particularly for a nation that had become accustomed to military industrial independence.

But, this is the PLAN Type 052 C/D forum, the former of which has recently completed its production run -hip, hip, hooray- and the latter's production is in full swing; full steam ahead!

Click to expand...

The Russian Navy definitely does seem to come out with optimistic projections every now and then, yes, but that doesn't mean modernizing Sovs is the right way for them to use their resources. The Sovs are fundamentally hindered by their older steam turbine propulsion which is not preferred compared to more modern gas turbines, and they also lack a VLS that makes it easier to refit the ship with more modern weapons the likes of which Slava and Kirov can enjoy with their large numbers of VLS.

Basically, I think dumping money, time, and manpower into making the Sovs a modern platform would be better spent on new frigates for the Russians. We're off topic enough now, but the key point I'm making is that neither the Russians nor Chinese will benefit very much from a transaction -- in particular, the Russians will have to fork up money not only to buy the ships but also to modernize them, set up crews for four large, Soviet era DDGs and maintain them year on year... If you want to continue this conversation, post a reply in the Russian military thread.

As I posted, above:
"But, this is the PLAN Type 052 C/D forum, the former of which has recently completed its production run -hip, hip, hooray- and the latter's production is in full swing; full steam ahead!"

janjak desalin said:

As I posted, above:
"But, this is the PLAN Type 052 C/D forum, the former of which has recently completed its production run -hip, hip, hooray- and the latter's production is in full swing; full steam ahead!"

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean, are you saying "this is the 052C/D thread, this subject is off topic, so let's talk about it somewhere else"? I'm not sure why you're talking about 052C/D's production run and "full steam ahead" and getting all hyped up about it...

Bltizo said:

I'm not sure what you mean, are you saying "this is the 052C/D thread, this subject is off topic, so let's talk about it somewhere else"?

Click to expand...

No, I mean this is the 052C/D thread, this subject is off topic, so, I'm getting back on topic. And, as such, full steam ahead! My implicit premise for the suggestion was, simply, that the Chinese military naval industry has achieved near self-sufficiency in major surface combatant production and that the days of relying on outdated cast-offs are, fundamentally, over. I'd suggest that, for some, that is something to celebrate.

As for "getting all hyped up", I offer inquiry and suggestions, not pronouncements!

You 2 really seem to have an urge to get last word in. Anything more arguing about semantics/Russian stuff will be deleted.

Anyway....

052C 6 commissioned reported by navyreco


The bit that caught my eye was about 052C production being delayed till 2010 due to the "complex nature" of the vessels -- wasn't the reason because JN was moving their shipyard to Changxing island or something?

Bltizo said:

Anyway....

052C 6 commissioned reported by navyreco

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The bit that caught my eye was about 052C production being delayed till 2010 due to the "complex nature" of the vessels -- wasn't the reason because JN was moving their shipyard to Changxing island or something?

Click to expand...

it was delayed because they were moving the shipyard and also QC-280 wasn't ready.

Full frontal at the quayside. The geometry of the main gun turret is rather pleasing...