052C/052D Class Destroyers

banjex said:

It's curious the 052C is being potentially refitted before the 051C. If this is really happening, why did they choose to do that?

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Type 052C #170 commissioned in 2004, #171 commissioned in 2005.
Type 051C #115 commissioned in 2006, #116 commissioned in 2007.

The dates of commissioning speaks for itself. Also, MLU for #170 and #171 wil provide useful experience for the rest of four type 052C, the MLU for which will be due in around 6 to 7 years time from today.

gelgoog said:

How about turning that 052C into a 052D? Would that make sense in terms of cost effectiveness?

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You'll pay much of the price of 052D for a marginal improvement in effectiveness.
Not worth it.

Gloire_bb said:

You'll pay much of the price of 052D for a marginal improvement in effectiveness.
Not worth it.

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Or sell it to friendly countries like Pakistan or NK or Cambodia or Thailand or even Indonesia with mate rate, Australia would be very "happy" if Indonesia bought it

antiterror13 said:

Or sell it to friendly countries like Pakistan or NK or Cambodia or Thailand or even Indonesia with mate rate, Australia would be very "happy" if Indonesia bought it

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Destroyer's yearly sustenance will cripple small country, and won't let it have a combat-capable unit in any case.

I don't understand why so many forum members are so keen on disposing of modern&capable combatants when China is in such a rush to boost numbers. It's just against the visible purpose.

Leave them to do their job - ships aren't mobile phones.

Tam said:

The 051Cs are likely gone when the next batch of 055 are made, their pennants 115 and 116 transferred to 055. The next eight 055 will likely take the pennants 109 to 116, replacing both 112 and 113, which are the two 052, and 115 and 116, which are the two 051C.

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This is certainly plausible, but to be honest I'm not sure how much weight to give this kind of "pennant-based reasoning". After all, it is simple enough to change pennant numbers, and to deviate from previously established patterns of assigning them.

Gloire_bb said:

Destroyer's yearly sustenance will cripple small country, and won't let it have a combat-capable unit in any case.

I don't understand why so many forum members are so keen on disposing of modern&capable combatants when China is in such a rush to boost numbers. It's just against the visible purpose.

Leave them to do their job - ships aren't mobile phones.

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You are 100% right, I think forum members want to standardise, get rid of the small batches of older ships and have a fleet of 054, 052D and 055.

The thing is that this will come naturally without having to give up valuable assets and investments in the meantime, it’s just that the PLA is much more patient than we are.

Lethe said:

This is certainly plausible, but to be honest I'm not sure how much weight to give this kind of "pennant-based reasoning". After all, it is simple enough to change pennant numbers, and to deviate from previously established patterns of assigning them.

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Its possible because the plans were already set some time ago, as a long term plan, and the pennants reflect that.

The real change is naming 10x for all Type 055, while 052D and all destroyers retain their traditional pennant system. The problem is that both systems exist in the same destroyer pennant line. Given that 101 to 108 are 055, its reasonable to assume the next eight would follow the pattern from 109 to 116. They didn't give the four existing SSF 055 a 14X, 18X, or 19X number, which is an indication these unused pennant regions are reserved for something else. The assumption that 109 to 116 would be 055 is actually quite safe given that 112 and 113 are already ripe for retirement by the time the 055 build reaches these numbers, and the last would be 115 and 116. This means both 051C would continue to serve for some years to come but not long enough to justify the cost of an MLU. Both ships will serve the way they are to the end of days. I think thats reasonable. Both ships cannot fit the Type 346/HHQ-9 system due to the massive radars, while refitting to an HHQ-16 is a major downgrade from the S-300 RIF-M. The HHQ-9 does not use the kind of pivoting spaced PESA set up used by the RIF-M, and you're not going to adapt the land based fire control radars just for two aging ships.

Both ships are stationed in the same port as the Liaoning and act as carrier escorts with area air defense, and turning both ships into a Sovremenny style antiship role destroyer with HHQ-16 and YJ-12 like the 051B Shenzhen refit represents a drastic change from their original mission role. Thus it makes sense to replace 115 and 116 with 055, which is the most logical type to inherit the area air defense mission. Do note that the Shenzhen and the four Sovremenny serve with destroyer divisions that are not primarily tasked with carrier escort and I have yet to see 167, 136, 137, 138, and 139 tasked with carrier escort from all the Liaoning task groups. Lacking the range on their air defenses, these ships also lack the quietness due to their steam propulsion for antisubmarine work. A 054A may not have long range air defenses but at least it can protect the carrier fleet from submarines. An antiship hunter like the refitted Shenzhen and the four Sovremenny will operate on their own groups, tasked with a sword and not a shield role.

Tam said:

Its possible because the plans were already set some time ago, as a long term plan, and the pennants reflect that.

The real change is naming 10x for all Type 055, while 052D and all destroyers retain their traditional pennant system. The problem is that both systems exist in the same destroyer pennant line. Given that 101 to 108 are 055, its reasonable to assume the next eight would follow the pattern from 109 to 116. They didn't give the four existing SSF 055 a 14X, 18X, or 19X number, which is an indication these unused pennant regions are reserved for something else. The assumption that 109 to 116 would be 055 is actually quite safe given that 112 and 113 are already ripe for retirement by the time the 055 build reaches these numbers, and the last would be 115 and 116. This means both 051C would continue to serve for some years to come but not long enough to justify the cost of an MLU.

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Again this seems very plausible, in that it reflects sensible reasoning and coheres with the limited information that is available, however to say that something is plausible is very different from being able to assert with any degree of confidence that it is actually going to happen.

On a related note, this pennant-based reasoning would seem to suggest that there will only be sixteen 055s, as 117-124 are already assigned to 052Ds. I hope that 055 numbers are not ultimately so limited.

Lethe said:

Again this seems very plausible, in that it reflects sensible reasoning and coheres with the limited information that is available, however to say that something is plausible is very different from being able to assert with any degree of confidence that it is actually going to happen.

On a related note, this pennant-based reasoning would seem to suggest that there will only be sixteen 055s, as 117-124 are already assigned to 052Ds. I hope that 055 numbers are not ultimately so limited.

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That's why I theorized that 117 to 119 will be renumbered 127 to 129. 117 and 118 are currently with the 1st Destroyer Division, just like 112, 113, 115 and 116. My theory suggests that 117 and 118 will be transferred to the nearby 10th Destroyer Division and renumbered 127 and 127. 119 is already part of the 10th, but will be conveniently renumbered to 129. This let's the 10th to have the more logical numbering of 120 to 129, as every Destroyer division begins either with a 0 or 1 and ends with a 9, with the middle digit the Destroyer number. The 1st Destroyer Division will entirely consist of up to 10 055s at the very max, allowing for 117, 118 and 119 to be used for 055s.

Another theory of mine points to the SSF 055s will form a new Destroyer Division separate from the 9th. The 9th will in turn complete its pennants from 170 to 179, adding four new 052D from 176 to 179. This theory goes that the 055s at the South Sea Fleet will be their own group, with their own logistical and command structure separate from the 052C/D based groups.

Finally there will be only two 055 based Destroyer Divisions at the start, one at the north which will be the 1st Destroyer Dvision, and the other at the south, which will be a new Division on its own. Three pennant groups remain in reserve, 14X, 18X, and 19X, which can be for new divisions and ship types.

DDG 132 Suzhou in Gulf of Aden.