STOBAR aircraft Ski-jump performance (SU-33/J-15)

Discussion in 'World Armed Forces' started by Bltizo, Sep 1, 2016.

  1. Air Force Brat
    Offline

    Air Force Brat Brigadier

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,309
    Likes Received:
    9,772
    Nope!
     
    bd popeye and delft like this.
  2. Jeff Head
    Offline

    Jeff Head General
    Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    24,045
    Likes Received:
    32,012
    Without the CATs...IMHO...nope, no way.

    The Mig-29K is a good aircraft. And the Indians are doing a LOT of exercising and training. Seeing a Rafale take off of the Vikram would be neat.

    But without the CATs, I simple do not believe they could get full load fuel and weapons at any time for either aircraft.
     
    #22 Jeff Head, Dec 6, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  3. bd popeye
    Offline

    bd popeye The Last Jedi
    VIP Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    29,041
    Likes Received:
    22,510
    A STOBAR equipped CV could not launch aircraft like these Intruders with a FULL load. When launching on a strike missions all USN aircraft have a full bag of fuel along with the weapons..

     
    #23 bd popeye, Jan 2, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 2, 2017
  4. delft
    Offline

    delft Brigadier

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    7,230
    Likes Received:
    6,750
    OT
    Prototype Intruders had jet pipes that could be deflected down ( See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_A-6_Intruder#/media/File:YA2F-1_tilting_pipes_NAN6-60.jpg ), I presume to make use of smaller flattops with weaker cats. This explains the position of the engines that is much farther forward than in other aircraft.
    Oddly enough there was a Fokker jet airliner design even some ten years earlier with similarly forward engines, F-26 ( https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs...-ddc-linuxmint&hspart=ddc&hsimp=yhs-linuxmint ).
     
  5. bd popeye
    Offline

    bd popeye The Last Jedi
    VIP Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    29,041
    Likes Received:
    22,510
    Intruders were deployed only aboard Forrestal, Kitty Hawk & Nimitz class carriers.

    Essex class could have launched Intruders. They launched Skywarriors why not Intruders? Never happened to my knowledge.

    US Navy catapults as installed aboard carriers.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Jeff Head
    Offline

    Jeff Head General
    Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    24,045
    Likes Received:
    32,012
    Makes you wonder.

    They were launching Sky Warriors and Vigilantes too, and both of those are big aircraft!
     
  7. Intrepid
    Offline

    Intrepid Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,543
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    Never say never again :)

    An EA-6A launched from Lexington in 1978
    EA-6A-USSLexington1978.jpg

    More pictures from Lexington with A-6Es:

    CV-16 with A-6E taking off.png

    CV-16 with A-6E touching down.png
     
  8. Intrepid
    Offline

    Intrepid Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,543
    Likes Received:
    1,644
    What is the maximum speed, a J-15/Su-33 can go over the ramp?
     
    Air Force Brat likes this.
  9. Air Force Brat
    Offline

    Air Force Brat Brigadier

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    8,309
    Likes Received:
    9,772
    They are very light, no ordinance!
     
    Obi Wan Russell and Intrepid like this.
  10. Obi Wan Russell
    Offline

    Obi Wan Russell Jedi Master
    VIP Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    Messages:
    1,670
    Likes Received:
    2,081
    Nothing leaves a ski jump much faster than about 80 knots; that's the whole point of the ramp, to get you airborne before you've reached flying speed. If you were to take off from the ramp like a car or motorbike, you'd fly for a while then drop back to earth/sea once your momentum ran out. Jet Aircraft are still accelerating when they leave the ramp, and they reach fully wing-borne flying speed a few hundred feet ahead of the ship and about 200ft above sea level. Hitting the ramp at higher entry speeds can lead to nosewheel oleo collapse. ski jump explained.JPG When people talk about integrating a ski jump with an EMALS they're just showing they don't understand how either system works. If you can get an aircraft to flying speed by the time it leaves the deck, as a catapult does, then you simply have no need for a ski jump. The ramp is the cheap and easy way to do it, the penalty for non-vectoring thrust aircraft like the SU-33/J-15 is decreased payload/fuel load, limiting the potential usefulness of the aircraft.
     
    DigoSSA, Air Force Brat and SteelBird like this.
Loading...

Share This Page