Type 022 Missile Boat

su-27

New Member
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Thank you very much Golly!

In my opinion the Haminas are not really comparable with 022s because seem have different roles. I propose the Skyold class Norwegian FACs: they are far more advanced than 022s but the role seems very similar
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

But the small size is mostly dictated by our rugged coastline, and that Only possiple thread comes from this certain direction and controlling the shallow esturies and islands gives our forces a huge strategical multifier, so the vessel needs to be cabaple navigate in less than 2,5 meter depth.
But all these are due the local requirment, and rules of the FACs tactical purpose in general doesent really apply in Baltic sea This is generally aknowlidged by martime circles.

Goll, if you have been to China you would see and see the coastline from Hong Kong to Qingdao, you would see an extremely rugged coastline, marked with estuaries and numerous small islands. This is one of the most rugged coastlines in the world. You can get some idea of it browsing in Google Earth.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

The 022 is a tiny ship and thus it will need some sort of guidence for its missiles (since the radar is also tiny). Guidence usually comes in 2 forms:
a) other surface combatents
b) naval aircraft

What it needs is an aimpoint for the missiles. An aimpoint is not direct guidance from ship to other ship sort of thing. It is a point where you fly your antiship missile. When it reaches this point, the active radar guidance seeker activates, finds its target and locks, and the missile finishes its job.

There is many ways to determine your aimpoint. A sub can use its sonar, and even passively determine this even by receiving the other echoes. In theory, a ship like the 022 can obtain its aimpoint through passive means, determining range and geolocation by the other's radar emissions.
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Re: One 022 sank!

As Popeye said, Americans don't know much about China, and add to that:
Why would China report on this? The boat has not been officially revealed yet (unless something happened while I was under the book.), so it is illegal to declassify by mentioning this, plus, it's an embarrassment.

But umm...What is the boat doing all the way out here? It's not painted yet. Accident? Someone forgot to tie up the rope when they were leaving for home? (Out of SY, no men onboard apparently)

Or just PS.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Is the Hamina class ten times more versatile than 022 because of the sensor suite and weapons? It's got like SSM, ASW rockets, and SAM missles. If that is the case, doesn't that go against your arguments of top heavy for such a small displacement at 250 tons? Because dimension wise, I think the 022 is slightly bigger so that should compensate for the monohull vs cat arguments.

Well Like I said, its main disadvantage is its small size. But monohulls have bit better tolerance for heavy load, as the most heaviest equipment, engines and ballast&other tanks can be placed under the waterline. Type022 is bigger, but it is a basic catamaran that outcludes lot of topweigth in a shiprole where it is allready sparse.


I do like the Hamina's small crew size, that works better for small FACs. I think the older type 37s has crew sizes of 60+ which is just too much in my opinion.

Yeas. But thats directly result of the level of automation. For our navy, which is made by conscripts and very limited ammount of them (if compared to the Army), manning has always been a proplem. Every batch of conscripts can only maintain like half of the ships with the navys peacetime strength and as the Hamina class with its sensors and capacity to be linked directly to the nationwide situation awarenes system (propaply has some fancyer english tittle:confused: ) is expected to be in sea more often than just in training sorties.

Why China hasn't implemented such solutions? I believe it has a lot to do with the European arms embargo coupled with China's limited development in certain equipment.

I think its due mostly of the speed how the class was impleded to the fleet. The need of this transistional phase called units that can really take best possiple advantage over the capacities of old generation of missile and torbedo FACs of whom wich to serve the whole extensive PLANs coastal defence structure has been build. To build totally new philosphy of boats that emphasis the independent operations and more prolonged patrol boat feature (role really belonging to various SRK type vessels in this sort of system) would have ment that PLAN would have had to create totally new infrastructure and operational network to support its coastal defences....
....and while at the same time transforming its navy out of the contest of coastal defences into bluewater navy, that sort of investment would have been pointless, kind of a step backwards.
So thats why it was logical to build a boat that really is best possiple in the tactical aspects of which the old centralised coastaldefence doctrine relyes and Type022 really takes advantage of speed and sthealth...


Goll, if you have been to China you would see and see the coastline from Hong Kong to Qingdao, you would see an extremely rugged coastline, marked with estuaries and numerous small islands. This is one of the most rugged coastlines in the world. You can get some idea of it browsing in Google Earth.

Yeas, but chinese potentia advisors that has the capacity of martime warfare arent anyway near of that coastline, are they;) Like if you take look at the Gulf of Finland map, you will get the idea of why there isent any need for bluewater units, as the narrow gulf is the only meaningfull sea are where our navy needs to operate if there is going to be a war against...

China in other hand doesent have geographical limitations that dictates a need to tie its forces into the coastal regions.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

You might want to try downloading the picture to your computer. Then uploading it as a thumbnail here. many times web sites won't allow hot links of pictures.
 

crobato

Colonel
VIP Professional
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

China in other hand doesent have geographical limitations that dictates a need to tie its forces into the coastal regions.

China is still confronted by various island chains and archipelegos from Indonesia to the south to Japan in the north, all of which geographically boxes China in from a naval point of view. This means that even littoral waters will be contested.

I do agree with the assumption that if you have very successful power projection capability, you would have automatically assured your dominance of your littoral waters as well. Hence I do agree that the PLAN should look into bigger vessels, with no less than corvettes as the minimum, all that can be used for a true blue water fleet. I'm quite impressed with the look of the new Russian corvettes.

Houbei type craft would make excellent coast guard patrol vessels.
 
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