Type 022 Missile Boat

szbd

Junior Member
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

I assume the air force can not find those hidden fixed tragets before the opening fire. When they fired, the planes may not be available immediately. Even if they were above the area, you need some way to let them see the targets. Air force need prepared intelligence to attack ground targets, but in this case, there's no accurate intelligence for them.

I didn't say I wanna park an LPD next to the beach. But something must go to the shore, right? Whatever they are, be it AAVs or landing crafts, I hope there are other vessles providing direct fire support to them, see things as they see and fire as they wish.
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

And I don't think helicopters is an important issue. the 630 CIWS is a very good anti helicopter weapon. Even the 12.7mm MGs of the amphibious tanks can pose a big threat to them.

No it isen't. The main weaknes of AK-630 is that it cannot rotate and shoot at the same time (I'm not sure about the elevation). Basicly it can shoot purses of fire into one vector than stop and move and shoot again. Also the ships lack the firecontrol radar for the gun so its relyed for optical aiming alone...

...and optically aimed low-level AAAs are not mented to actually pinpoint hitting the target, but laying a net of fire and and hope that the enemy aircraft either is at the smae location where the ammunitions are or that the enemy aircraft changes its flightpath. Their effiency against agile helicopters is relatively small.

12,7mm AA mgs are not big threat to anything but soft land targets. Thrust me I've fired one and its extremely difficoult to hit even static helicopter size target under 1000m range. The idea of AAA is even exaggerated with them. They are much more of an moral support agaist airtargets than real means to bring them down.

Against the threat of helicopters the best support is modern CIWS (missile/gun compo would be ideal) and extensive EW suite with passive and active counter meassures.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Considering the range difference betwen a helicopter-carried missiles and a ship-based CIWS gun, is it even realistic to think the AK-630 gun has a shot at the aircraft?

The AK-630 is said to have effective range of 4km. Even hellfire missiles have 8km range. The AGM-119's have what, 40km range?
 

OldSquid

Just Hatched
Registered Member
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

022's aren't designed to go against submarines, nor provided artillery bombardment in support of amphibious operations. They cannot carry any signficant number of troops for inflitration or beach landings, that would upset the weight and balance, reduce their speed and endurance and so on.

What they are designed for is to hit, disable and in large enough numbers,
interdict surface combatants (carrier escorts) and possibly disrupt air operations on a US aircraft carrier.

Those are the things they are cabable of, and if the doctrine, tactics and data links are developed properly, they should be able accomplish their assigned mission.
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

OldSquid is right. (Great name by the way!) The FAC 022 is just what it appears to be. A fast costal missile boat. Nothing more. Nothing less. Anything else is pure conjecture.

PLAN needs to works, as it has, on it's Aphib assault capablity. First off they need a few more LPD's like the 071. Properly outfitted and trained of course.

The 022 as a landing craft? Nope..I do see a use for it as a landing craft for speical forces....That's a posiblity.
 

planeman

Senior Member
VIP Professional
Re: What is the probability that 022 is actually a landing craft?

Using the 022 for shore fire support is just nonsensical. That would be throwing away its obvious advantages as a fast moving stealth littorial combat missile boat. It has poor air defences (though typical of FACs) and no effective means of shorebombardment. The fixed box launchers are unsuitible for ballistic rockets (MRLS etc) and with a max of say 12 Smerch sized rockets it'd have poor sustained support potential.

One thought might be that it could be used as a cruise missile launch platform with up to eight LACMs but that is unlikely IMO simply because the PLAN don't seem that imaginiative in application.
 

alwaysfresh

New Member
022 Purpose and Advantages for PLAN

1) What is the purpose of the 022?

I am quoting OldSquid in the other thread:
"What they are designed for is to hit, disable and in large enough numbers,
interdict surface combatants (carrier escorts) and possibly disrupt air operations on a US aircraft carrier. "

3) What advantages does the 022 have?

Speed and Stealth
 

Kilo636

Banned Idiot
Re: 022 Purpose and Advantages for PLAN

1) What is the purpose of the 022?

I am quoting OldSquid in the other thread:
"What they are designed for is to hit, disable and in large enough numbers,
interdict surface combatants (carrier escorts) and possibly disrupt air operations on a US aircraft carrier. "

3) What advantages does the 022 have?

Speed and Stealth

I will think 022 is design specifically to deal with ROCN given the short distance of Strait of Taiwan.... Thus freeding more major warship of PLAN deal with JMSDF and USN

other advantages of 022 will be its small size compare to corvette and frigate and high stability in rough sea.....
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Re: 022 Purpose and Advantages for PLAN

Actually we have discussed this seaworthiness quite along time now and as far as I'm consered this type of normal catamaran hull doesen't give the ship that great stability that many might think. To have catamarans being stabile you need SWATH type of hulls which isen't the case with type 22.

But what the ships are mented is quite simple. Coastal defence. They have virtually no endurange due the fact that there is no volume in the hull to storeys and supplies not to mention great crew comfront and fuel. They roles are pretty much the same as has been with small and fast FACs since the creation of motor-torbedo boats. Fast but short dashes against invading enemy landingships and their support units in the rude coastlines of arghipegalo. Speed and Stealthines are great benefit in this type of warfare but unfortunetly the modern enviroment exspecially against airtargets these ships are rather weak. And they are not offensive weapons to be used against targets way beoynd own shores and definetly not any sort of patrol ships. The lack of endurance prevents them.

But in more detailed I think its pretty much said that theyr usage are stop-gap measure in the form of modernising PLAN coastal forces. they present logical devolpment from the old Russian orgin torbedo and missile boats, with elements (such as the hull form and speed) to exploid the tactical thinking of these type of vessels....which are pretty well explained by Oldsquid, thanks to him;)
I would add their potential comes most handly against invading landing forces...

remarkable is that PRC now remains sole advocate of the ancient small FAC concept that finally proven its shortlivenes in Gulf War. The overal enthustiastism of missile FACs came from the realisationt that Torbedo boats can carry SSMs and therfore temporaly giving them deadly thread to bigger warships.
But those biggers have now reached the gap...and the disadvantages of FACs have come present during various conflicts they have involved. These disadvantages migth change to class to class but general consensus counts at least these to take consider:

1)They are small. So you cannot just but everything from them but carefully examine what is possible and come out with compromises and novel features to enable their fighting skills.

2) As they are small in size, the exes topweigth they can carry is limited. This puts restrictions most notably to their mast structures and limits the ammount of sensors that they can carry. As the current thread enverioment calls increasing ammount of ECM and improved radar sensors to counter the air thread, only way to place them in the ships are to make mast as ligth as possiple. Or like Israelis have done, just ignore the topweigth and pretend that it doesent exist:D
What many western leading FAC producers have find out, the ligth mast are prone to vibrate so bad in high speeds that the ships weapon systems cannot be operated in optime attack speeds. Also in poorer build FACs this vibration in high-seas (that will always exist in some level in ships) have led failures to the missile system itself.

To counter this proplem the FACs have growed in size or featured novel seakeeping ideas. Type022s catamaran hull speaks for it self. Top weigth is even more concern in catamaran, as the ships weigth point is lot higher than in normal boat. This is clearly evident in all Type022 desing and sole thecnical reason for its rather limited load in terms of active and passive protection and defence equipment.

3) the air thread. The helicopter launched SSM that made its depute in Falklands and showed its muscles in 1990 Gulf War. expecially to smaller navies that assume to operate FACs as a David vs. Golyat aspect, the value of FACs have seriously dropped if the opponent has helicopter launched SSMs.
So to encounter this thread, the value of Air defences have rosed. But to place a velocity prone SAMs and their radars (as well as supporting ECM) to allready small hulls strains the desing even more....

Thats why you can rarely spot under 50 meter, 400 tonner missile boat in other manufactorers. The small Frigate/Corvette desings have therefore begun to flourish (along with the hype to use such desings as low-cost replacement to expensive ASW frigates of western navies that doesent have to hunt VMF submarines any longer)


So I myself found Type022 almoust useless class for Blue Water navy, but then again we have to understand that PLAN is not Blue water yet. It is in transistion stage. In other end its precious to have enough modern weapon platforms to replace the worn out anciet and obsolete ships that forms the bulk of PLA tonnage, and in other hand PLAN seeks actively succesfull desings that can be mass produced to the future ocean going fleet.
Type022 fits really well in this situation. It presents some level of traditionalism, most notably in the concept of usage, therefore it can be quickly incorporated to the fleet that has long experiences of old shore commanded FAC operations, but in other hand they feature some sort of experimentality that migth come handy for the future fleet and its expansions.
 

Kilo636

Banned Idiot
Re: 022 Purpose and Advantages for PLAN

So I myself found Type022 almoust useless class for Blue Water navy, but then again we have to understand that PLAN is not Blue water yet.

Everyship no matter what size has a role to play in a navy. I am wondering how Type 022 is useless for a blue water navy? Or maybe you want to rephase like yr words like Type 022 is useless for a blue water projection will sounds more logical....

FAC when mixed in heavy sea traffic lane is a menace to any enemy. You will has a great trouble identify it especially at night. In yr FCS or navigation radar,their radar signature is no different from ferry boats and fishing trawler or large Yacht. Especially type022 has stealth features,they will appear even smaller like some small boat. Their small size and fast speed gives them the advantage to do hugging with large ship in shipping lanes when lock on by anti-ship missiles..

To suggest FAC is near its end,is a clear absurd in modern naval warfare....
 
Last edited:
Top