Wonder if ban of rare earth minerals will be implemented now after 10% tariffs on 200B$ goods or soon after 267B$.
Trade War with China
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Even if Trump imposed 25% tariffs on everything from China, the Chinese value-add only accounts for 2% of Chinese GDP.
So China would still remain the world's largest economy in terms of actual output of goods and services
China would still remain the world's largest consumer retail market by any measure, for most categories of goods and services
China would still remain the world's largest manufacturer by any measure
China would still pass the US in terms of R&D spending by 2019, with most of this conducted by the private sector. So in the long-run, China should become hi-tech and escape the middle-income trap.
If we look at the experience of the other East Asian Tiger economies at a similar level of economic development (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong), China is still looking at a sustained 6% growth rate, which means the economy would double in size over the next 12 years.
So given that the Chinese leadership know this, why should they submit to Trump's threats?
So China would still remain the world's largest economy in terms of actual output of goods and services
China would still remain the world's largest consumer retail market by any measure, for most categories of goods and services
China would still remain the world's largest manufacturer by any measure
China would still pass the US in terms of R&D spending by 2019, with most of this conducted by the private sector. So in the long-run, China should become hi-tech and escape the middle-income trap.
If we look at the experience of the other East Asian Tiger economies at a similar level of economic development (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong), China is still looking at a sustained 6% growth rate, which means the economy would double in size over the next 12 years.
So given that the Chinese leadership know this, why should they submit to Trump's threats?
antiterror13
Brigadier
or just abandon the trade all together ....
plawolf
Lieutenant General
This is a direct consequence of the strange ‘post-fact’ direction western politics has been going in for some time. Where being right comes a distant second to ideological purity.
The likes of Navarro, who champions such tarriffs, are in positions of power not because of any actual achievement or qualification, but only because they are saying the kind of things the powers that be wants to hear.
Such tarriffs will not have the desired effect because they are the wrong solution targeted at the wrong ‘problem’.
As countless American business leaders have testified, they are using Chinese companies not primarily because of price, but instead because of the quality of Chinese made goods. Often there are no alternatives of similar quality at any price.
It is pure nonsense to think that making something in America will automatically result on superior quality.
Chinese manufacturers can achieve their quality and price because of the skill, expertise and critical mass of support industries of similar skill and quality.
Much of the vaunted American ‘re-shoring’ manufacturing ventures went out as wet squibs because they discovered too late that getting some randoms from the jobless line does not give them the staff with the skill capable of competing with Chinese workers with years of experience.
Nor could those re-shored manufacturers find the subcontractors and suppliers they need locally, meaning they ended up sourcing much of their components from China. So all they managed to do is increase costs and lower quality and productivity.
All of this means these tarriffs have little likelihood to create many new jobs in the US, certainly nothing like the scale of the jobs that will be put under threat by these tarrifs as companies seek to cut costs to absorb the additional costs of the tarriffs, and inevitably pass on some of the price rises to consumers.
The US trade deficit with China may be reduced, but that will be mainly from reduced consumption and manufacturing as US based manufacturers goes bust and American consumers get squeezed into reducing consumption as the costs of their everyday essentials jump as a result of the tarriffs.
Ironically, such reduced American imports may be further offset by a much bigger drop in demand from China for American goods. As Chinese people will rightly see the trade war and all the associated negative consequences on their own finances as the result of US bullying. Needless to say, that is unlikely to make Chinese people want to buy American goods.
Throw in a little Chinese government encouragement and demand for American goods could easily collapse as public sentiment towards American goods shift.
This is just a slow motion car crash, and sadly most of us will all probably get affected personally as collateral damage.
The likes of Navarro, who champions such tarriffs, are in positions of power not because of any actual achievement or qualification, but only because they are saying the kind of things the powers that be wants to hear.
Such tarriffs will not have the desired effect because they are the wrong solution targeted at the wrong ‘problem’.
As countless American business leaders have testified, they are using Chinese companies not primarily because of price, but instead because of the quality of Chinese made goods. Often there are no alternatives of similar quality at any price.
It is pure nonsense to think that making something in America will automatically result on superior quality.
Chinese manufacturers can achieve their quality and price because of the skill, expertise and critical mass of support industries of similar skill and quality.
Much of the vaunted American ‘re-shoring’ manufacturing ventures went out as wet squibs because they discovered too late that getting some randoms from the jobless line does not give them the staff with the skill capable of competing with Chinese workers with years of experience.
Nor could those re-shored manufacturers find the subcontractors and suppliers they need locally, meaning they ended up sourcing much of their components from China. So all they managed to do is increase costs and lower quality and productivity.
All of this means these tarriffs have little likelihood to create many new jobs in the US, certainly nothing like the scale of the jobs that will be put under threat by these tarrifs as companies seek to cut costs to absorb the additional costs of the tarriffs, and inevitably pass on some of the price rises to consumers.
The US trade deficit with China may be reduced, but that will be mainly from reduced consumption and manufacturing as US based manufacturers goes bust and American consumers get squeezed into reducing consumption as the costs of their everyday essentials jump as a result of the tarriffs.
Ironically, such reduced American imports may be further offset by a much bigger drop in demand from China for American goods. As Chinese people will rightly see the trade war and all the associated negative consequences on their own finances as the result of US bullying. Needless to say, that is unlikely to make Chinese people want to buy American goods.
Throw in a little Chinese government encouragement and demand for American goods could easily collapse as public sentiment towards American goods shift.
This is just a slow motion car crash, and sadly most of us will all probably get affected personally as collateral damage.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
China said she will retaliate. I guess there is no need to talk anymore what for?
China says Trump forces its hand, will retaliate against new U.S. tariffs
By Yawen Chen and David Lawder
BEIJING/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - China said on Tuesday that it had no choice but to retaliate against new U.S. trade tariffs, raising the risk that U.S. President Donald Trump could soon impose duties on virtually all of the Chinese goods that America buys.
The Chinese commerce ministry's statement came hours after Trump said he was imposing 10 percent tariffs on about $200 billion worth of imports from China, and threatened duties on about $267 billion more if China retaliated against the U.S. action.
The brief statement gave no details on China's plans, but Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told a news briefing later that the U.S. steps have brought "new uncertainty" to talks between the two countries.
"China has always emphasized that the only correct way to resolve the China-U.S. trade issue is via talks and consultations held on an equal, sincere and mutually respectful basis. But at this time, everything the United States does not give the impression of sincerity or goodwill," he added.
Geng said he would not comment on "hypotheticals" such as what measures Beijing might consider apart from tariffs on U.S. products, saying only that details would be released at the appropriate time.
Trump warned on Monday that if China takes retaliatory action against U.S. farmers or industries, "we will immediately pursue phase three, which is tariffs on approximately $267 billion of additional imports."
The latest U.S. duties spared smart watches from Apple and Fitbit and other consumer products such as baby car seats. But if the administration enacts the additional tariffs it would engulf all remaining U.S. imports from China and Apple products like the iPhone and its competitors would not likely be spared.
Last month, China unveiled a proposed list of tariffs on $60 billion of U.S. goods ranging from liquefied natural gas to certain types of aircraft - should Washington activate the tariffs on its $200 billion list.
"THIS ESCALATION VERY UNFORTUNATE"
China is reviewing plans to send a delegation to Washington for fresh talks in light of the U.S. action, the South China Morning Post reported on Tuesday, citing a government source in Beijing.
Collection of tariffs on the long-anticipated U.S. list will start on Sept. 24 but the rate will increase to 25 percent by the end of 2018, allowing U.S. companies some time to adjust their supply chains to alternate countries.
So far, the United States has imposed tariffs on $50 billion worth of Chinese products to pressure Beijing to reduce its huge bilateral trade surplus and make sweeping changes to its trade, technology transfer and high-tech industrial subsidy policies.
Beijing has retaliated in kind, but some analysts and American businesses are concerned it could resort to other measures such as pressuring U.S. companies operating in China.
A senior Chinese securities market official said U.S. trade actions will not work as China has ample fiscal and monetary policy tools to cope with the impact. The government already has been ramping up spending on infrastructure.
"President Trump is a hard-hitting businessman, and he tries to put pressure on China so he can get concessions from our negotiations. I think that kind of tactic is not going to work with China," Fang Xinghai, vice chairman of China's securities regulator, said at a conference in the port city of Tianjin.
Trump's latest escalation of tariffs on China comes after several rounds of talks yielded no progress. U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin last week invited top Chinese officials to fresh discussions, but thus far nothing has been scheduled.
"We have been very clear about the type of changes that need to be made, and we have given China every opportunity to treat us more fairly," Trump said in a statement. "But, so far, China has been unwilling to change its practices."
U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said on Tuesday the next step on holding "constructive negotiations" was up to China.
"So the question about whether or when to have a discussion is very importantly in their ballpark," Ross told CNBC.
"RECKLESS" DECISION
Fang told the Tianjin forum that he hopes the two sides can sit down and talk, but added that the latest U.S. move has "poisoned" the atmosphere.
So far, China has either imposed or proposed tariffs on $110 billion of U.S. goods, representing most of its imports of American products.
The trade chief for the European Union, which has its own disputes with the Trump administration, called the new U.S. tariffs an escalation over issues that should be resolved through the World Trade Organization.
"Trade wars are not good and they are not easy to win, and this escalation is of course very unfortunate," European Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom told reporters.
China's yuan currency slipped against the dollar on Tuesday after news of the U.S. measures. It has weakened by about 6.0 percent since mid-June, offsetting the 10 percent tariff rate by a considerable margin.
The U.S. Trade Representative's office eliminated 297 product categories from the latest proposed tariff list, along with some subsets of other categories.
But the adjustments did little to appease technology and retail groups who argued U.S. consumers would feel the pain.
"President Trump's decision ... is reckless and will create lasting harm to communities across the country," said Dean Garfield, president of the Information Technology Industry Council, which represents major tech firms.
Kenneth Jarrett, president of the American Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai, said three quarters of its members will be hit by the tariffs, and they will not bring jobs back to the United States.
(Reporting by Steve Holland, David Lawder, Ginger Gibson, Eric Beech, David Shepardson, Yawen Chen; Additional reporting by Kevin Yao in TIANJIN, John Ruwitch in SHANGHAI and Christian Shepherd, Michael Martina and Ryan Woo in BEIJING; Editing by Clive McKeef and Kim Coghill)
China says Trump forces its hand, will retaliate against new U.S. tariffs
By Yawen Chen and David Lawder
BEIJING/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - China said on Tuesday that it had no choice but to retaliate against new U.S. trade tariffs, raising the risk that U.S. President Donald Trump could soon impose duties on virtually all of the Chinese goods that America buys.
The Chinese commerce ministry's statement came hours after Trump said he was imposing 10 percent tariffs on about $200 billion worth of imports from China, and threatened duties on about $267 billion more if China retaliated against the U.S. action.
The brief statement gave no details on China's plans, but Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told a news briefing later that the U.S. steps have brought "new uncertainty" to talks between the two countries.
"China has always emphasized that the only correct way to resolve the China-U.S. trade issue is via talks and consultations held on an equal, sincere and mutually respectful basis. But at this time, everything the United States does not give the impression of sincerity or goodwill," he added.
Geng said he would not comment on "hypotheticals" such as what measures Beijing might consider apart from tariffs on U.S. products, saying only that details would be released at the appropriate time.
Trump warned on Monday that if China takes retaliatory action against U.S. farmers or industries, "we will immediately pursue phase three, which is tariffs on approximately $267 billion of additional imports."
The latest U.S. duties spared smart watches from Apple and Fitbit and other consumer products such as baby car seats. But if the administration enacts the additional tariffs it would engulf all remaining U.S. imports from China and Apple products like the iPhone and its competitors would not likely be spared.
Last month, China unveiled a proposed list of tariffs on $60 billion of U.S. goods ranging from liquefied natural gas to certain types of aircraft - should Washington activate the tariffs on its $200 billion list.
"THIS ESCALATION VERY UNFORTUNATE"
China is reviewing plans to send a delegation to Washington for fresh talks in light of the U.S. action, the South China Morning Post reported on Tuesday, citing a government source in Beijing.
Collection of tariffs on the long-anticipated U.S. list will start on Sept. 24 but the rate will increase to 25 percent by the end of 2018, allowing U.S. companies some time to adjust their supply chains to alternate countries.
So far, the United States has imposed tariffs on $50 billion worth of Chinese products to pressure Beijing to reduce its huge bilateral trade surplus and make sweeping changes to its trade, technology transfer and high-tech industrial subsidy policies.
Beijing has retaliated in kind, but some analysts and American businesses are concerned it could resort to other measures such as pressuring U.S. companies operating in China.
A senior Chinese securities market official said U.S. trade actions will not work as China has ample fiscal and monetary policy tools to cope with the impact. The government already has been ramping up spending on infrastructure.
"President Trump is a hard-hitting businessman, and he tries to put pressure on China so he can get concessions from our negotiations. I think that kind of tactic is not going to work with China," Fang Xinghai, vice chairman of China's securities regulator, said at a conference in the port city of Tianjin.
Trump's latest escalation of tariffs on China comes after several rounds of talks yielded no progress. U.S. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin last week invited top Chinese officials to fresh discussions, but thus far nothing has been scheduled.
"We have been very clear about the type of changes that need to be made, and we have given China every opportunity to treat us more fairly," Trump said in a statement. "But, so far, China has been unwilling to change its practices."
U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said on Tuesday the next step on holding "constructive negotiations" was up to China.
"So the question about whether or when to have a discussion is very importantly in their ballpark," Ross told CNBC.
"RECKLESS" DECISION
Fang told the Tianjin forum that he hopes the two sides can sit down and talk, but added that the latest U.S. move has "poisoned" the atmosphere.
So far, China has either imposed or proposed tariffs on $110 billion of U.S. goods, representing most of its imports of American products.
The trade chief for the European Union, which has its own disputes with the Trump administration, called the new U.S. tariffs an escalation over issues that should be resolved through the World Trade Organization.
"Trade wars are not good and they are not easy to win, and this escalation is of course very unfortunate," European Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom told reporters.
China's yuan currency slipped against the dollar on Tuesday after news of the U.S. measures. It has weakened by about 6.0 percent since mid-June, offsetting the 10 percent tariff rate by a considerable margin.
The U.S. Trade Representative's office eliminated 297 product categories from the latest proposed tariff list, along with some subsets of other categories.
But the adjustments did little to appease technology and retail groups who argued U.S. consumers would feel the pain.
"President Trump's decision ... is reckless and will create lasting harm to communities across the country," said Dean Garfield, president of the Information Technology Industry Council, which represents major tech firms.
Kenneth Jarrett, president of the American Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai, said three quarters of its members will be hit by the tariffs, and they will not bring jobs back to the United States.
(Reporting by Steve Holland, David Lawder, Ginger Gibson, Eric Beech, David Shepardson, Yawen Chen; Additional reporting by Kevin Yao in TIANJIN, John Ruwitch in SHANGHAI and Christian Shepherd, Michael Martina and Ryan Woo in BEIJING; Editing by Clive McKeef and Kim Coghill)
Someone was waiting me in the corner. cool off man you could involve in the previous conversations if you want to educate me. Huh?
My comment wasn't optimistic about the situation. That's why i said "not to mention exo-US market" Maybe my Greek-to-English are not good ,but...
Do you suppose that i believe that any product produced in USA to be competetive with one from Vietnam?LOL mate.
I said that those tariffs could blow production in US , for endo-US consuption (USA has a huge and wealthy market) as Trump can impose tariffs on everyone (he already did to its EU "partners") even at Indian or Vietnamese products, could he? IF it's not against to him or his buddies bussiness interests. Are we talking about capitalism or what
Mayby sneaky or sly fits better than smart to the tariffs imposition
concluding, my previous conclusion was that US workers will pay the cost each way but it seems you never got it
Interestingly, the newest tariffs are to be between 5 and 10%, depending on product. So instead of going with even higher tariffs than US, to "compensate" for smaller value of all taxed products combined (60 billion versus 200 billion), Chinese side has opted for deescalation? It might work... or it might not. Will be interesting to see.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Where did you read it here it is the quote It is not between 5 and 10% mus be some kind of typo
Last month when the U.S. published a provisional list of Chinese products worth about $200 billion that it would target with the latest tariffs, China responded with a list of $60 billion of American products that would be targeted for retaliatory tariffs of between 5 and 25 percent.
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