Trade War with China

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2handedswordsman

Junior Member
Registered Member
Yeah,his target is not that to save money with cheap tshirts, , but to increase salaries.

Tariffs are very smart way to revive production on US soil making "native" American products competitive, while gaining profits for US state. I hope that salaries will increase too but it seems to be metaphysical due to competitiveness. Workers will pay the cost at the end as robots will take their place unfortunately

Not to mention what is to happen at the exo-US market
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Tariffs are very smart way to revive production on US soil making "native" American products competitive, while gaining profits for US state. I hope that salaries will increase too but it seems to be metaphysical due to competitiveness. Workers will pay the cost at the end as robots will take their place unfortunately

Not to mention what is to happen at the exo-US market

No it isn't smart. "Native" American products will still be way more expensive than products made elsewhere in places like Vietnam or India.

Remember that Chinese wages have increased a lot, so low-end manufacturing was relocating out of China anyway.

Can you please educate yourself and come up with your own independent conclusions.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Trump want to redistribute the big corporate profit to the low wages workers / small businesses.

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You do realise that Trump's tweets often bear no relation to reality?

If you do your own research, you can see US wage increases are mainly being driven by the labour shortage trend, which started before Trump.

I think it would be best to not to quote Trump on economic matters, since he has such a weak grasp of the subject.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Economic containment will be extremely unlikely to lead to open conflict between the US and China. While both are incredibly important to each other economically, the relationship doesn’t matter enough to either side to go to war over.

That is because of Chinese military power, not in spite of it. If China was a military basket case, then military conflict would be far more likely, as the relatively low risk and cost of conflict would make a war worthwhile from a US prospective. And even a cursory glance to history will show that it is incredibly easy for the US to find an excuse to go to war if it thinks the costs of doing so would be pretty low even where it doesn’t have a direct stake in the dispute.

But economic containment is pretty much a non-starter at this point. China is far too big and economically important for even close US allies to be willing to shun it on America’s say so. Especially when America is acting like an economic rogue state with trade and economic policy under Trump. Just look at the embarrassment the US suffered when it tried and failed to sabotage the AIIB. And that was under Obama!

What more, China is actively creating new economies and markets with its belt and road project. That is where China has set its sights for its medium and long term development.

The biggest danger and risk is if the US chooses to engage in shadowy underhanded tactics to try and damage China via proxies. The belt and road is vulnerable, especially the far flung parts not yet directly linked to China.

That is a key reason for China to starting pursing foreign bases and carriers.

Such bases and carriers would be of limited used in the Indian Ocean and beyond in a direct shooting war with the US. But they will be more than enough to deal with any proxies and cat paws the US might direct or incite to attack Chinese overseas interests.

To be honest, China pretty much already has the power projection capabilities for a mission on a similar if not larger scale than what Russia did in Syria. The PLAN especially, gives China significantly more options and capabilities than what Russia could muster.

China is building up the means to defend the new economic project it is creating in parallel with the belt and road; which in turn helps to ensure that the likelihood of the trade war escalating into a shooting war is extremely remote.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Trump want to redistribute the big corporate profit to the low wages workers / small businesses.

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This is your understanding of economics? You missed that corporations used their increased profits for stock buybacks, not increasing wages or move production back to the US. That was pretty obvious in the get go after the massive corporation tax break.
 

Tam

Brigadier
Registered Member
Remember that retailer typically operate with a profit margin of 20%-30% on imported goods. Otherwise they end up going bankrupt.

So at the low end, a 10% tariff increase on imports typically means a price increase of 12% to the end consumer.

And a 25% tariff increase means a 30% increase in the price to the end consumer.

Price increase will be greater. Reduced trade volume means increased costs of freight, which not only will affect tariffed products but also non tariffed ones. Furthermore increased freight will also affect non tariffed goods from the US going to China. With less trade volume, this also affects the cost of operations for all sea ports, which means this will result in an increase of goods cost to all products from any country going through the sea ports both in and out.

This is worsened by another factor as the US imposes sanctions on Iran oil, which is bound to increase all fuel costs.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Well trade war is raging. Bring them on! See if china has the spine and decline invitation to talk
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Trump hits China with tariffs on another $200 bn in goods

US President Donald Trump on Monday defied warnings and escalated the trade confrontation with China, hitting the country with tariffs starting next week on another $200 billion in imports and threatening to target even more if Beijing retaliates.

Trump said China had refused to change the unfair practices that hurt US businesses and workers.

"For months, we have urged China to change these unfair practices and give fair and reciprocal treatment to American companies," Trump said in a statement.

"These practices plainly constitute a grave threat to the long-term health and prosperity of the United States economy," he said.

"But, so far, China has been unwilling to change its practices," including theft and force transfer of technology.

Once the new round of tariffs takes effect on September 24, punitive duties will be in place on roughly half of the products the US buys from China -- its largest source of imported merchandise.

The latest round of imports will face 10 percent tariffs through the end of the year, and then the rate will jump to 25 percent.

In Beijing, China's Foreign Ministry had already vowed to strike back.

"If the US launches any new tariff measures, China will have to take countermeasures to firmly ensure our legitimate rights and interests," foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told reporters during a regular press briefing on Monday.

But Trump warned that "if China takes retaliatory action against our farmers or other industries, we will immediately pursue phase three, which is tariffs on approximately $267 billion of additional imports."

That would mean imposing new taxes on all of the goods the US imports from China.

"Once again, I urge China's leaders to take swift action to end their country's unfair trade practices," Trump said. "Hopefully, this trade situation will be resolved, in the end, by myself and President Xi of China, for whom I have great respect and affection."

- Smart watches spared -

The new taxes will hit a broad swath of products, including billions in Chinese-made voice data receivers, computer memory modules, automatic data processors, and accessories for office equipment such as copiers and bank note dispensers -- instantly making widely used goods more expensive.

However, senior administration officials told reporters the initial list announced in July was reduced by 300 product lines after the administration received 6,000 written comments from consumers and businesses.

The products spared included consumer electronics like smart watches and Bluetooth devices, child safety products such as high chairs, car seats and play pens, and certain health-and-safety products such as bicycle helmets, the officials said.

The officials said China had been given "chance after chance" to change the trade practices considered unfair to US businesses, but "have remained obdurate."

Only last week, Beijing said it welcomed overtures from US officials offering to re-start trade talks, but press reports indicate China would call off any meetings if the new punitive duties take effect.

The escalating confrontation shook up global stock markets. Wall Street closed the day solidly in the red, and word of the fresh round of tariffs had already sent Chinese stocks tumbling more than one percent, with the benchmark Shanghai Composite Index falling to 2,651.79, the lowest level since 2014.

While officials said the impact on the US economy has been minimal, firms across the country report lost businesses, layoffs and possible bankruptcies as input costs rise and exports fall.

They officials told reporters the lower initial tariff rate would give US businesses time to find new suppliers.

That could soften the blow to US consumers and manufacturers among others ahead of key US congressional elections in November.

Lobbying against the tariffs has risen sharply in Washington but Trump's policy has left candidates in competitive races for November's hard-fought midterm congressional elections in awkward positions.

Some Republicans in export-dependent areas have fallen silent on trade or sought to push back. But some Democrats, who broadly oppose the president's agenda and are banking on his unpopularity, have adopted critical views of trade agreements and free trade.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
Well trade war is raging. Bring them on! See if china has the spine and decline invitation to talk
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Trump hits China with tariffs on another $200 bn in goods

US President Donald Trump on Monday defied warnings and escalated the trade confrontation with China, hitting the country with tariffs starting next week on another $200 billion in imports and threatening to target even more if Beijing retaliates.
I hit you but you are not allowed to hit back. This is fair trade under Trump administration!
 
kinda summary of recent developments I've now read:
Trump administration will impose tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese goods
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President Donald Trump is sharply escalating the American trade war with China.
The United States will impose a 10% tariff later this month on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods, increasing to 25% at the end of the year, the Trump administration announced Monday.
The additional tariffs are on top of penalties enacted earlier this year on $50 billion worth of Chinese goods. Taken together, it means roughly half of the products that China sells to the United States each year will be hit by American tariffs.
In July, the administration published a list of thousands of products that would be subject to the latest round of trade penalties. More than 300 products were removed from that list -- including smartwatches, health and safety devices and children's playpens.
Trump had urged his advisers to press forward with the $200 billion round, even as Washington and Beijing worked to restart trade talks. Trump's decision threatens to upend the possibility of a diplomatic breakthrough with Chinese negotiators.
"China has had many opportunities to fully address our concerns," Trump said in a statement released Monday evening by the White House. "Once again, I urge China's leaders to take swift action to end their country's unfair trade practices."
Trump also threatened to inflict more economic pain in the form of additional tariffs if Beijing takes any retaliatory action.
Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin had invited the negotiators to Washington this week to resume talks. But China said it would turn down the offer if the United States went ahead with more tariffs.
"We stand ready to negotiate with China anytime, if they are willing to engage in serious talks," said Larry Kudlow, the White House economic adviser, said earlier in the day at the Economic Club of New York.
Earlier Monday, Trump previewed the announcement at the White House: "It will be a lot of money coming into the coffers of the United States of America. A lot of money coming in," he said.
In remarks from the Roosevelt Room, he said he was confident an agreement could eventually be reached with China, but stressed such an accord must do right by American workers.
"They want to make a deal," Trump said. "But from our standpoint, it has to be fair. It has to take care of our workers."
The tariffs are meant to punish China for alleged unfair trade practices, including intellectual property theft. China has accused the United States of trade bullying and, to this point, has responded dollar-for-dollar with tariffs of its own.
The new round of American tariffs takes effect September 24.
US trade officials held public hearings in late August on the proposed escalation, hearing from dozens of American businesses hoping to be exempted. Businesses will be scouring the final list to find out whether their appeals were heard.
In a letter to the US trade representative, Dell, Cisco, Juniper Networks and Hewlett Packard Enterprise said that tariffs on of their networking equipment could hurt their bottom lines and lead to possible US job losses.
But despite their lobbying efforts, some of those products will remain on the tariff list. While consumer electronic products were generally removed, network and router items will be covered by the tariffs, senior administration officials said on a call with reporters Monday.
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce criticized the tariffs, saying Monday that the decision "makes clear that the administration did not heed the numerous warnings from American consumers and businesses."
"Both countries should stay at the negotiating table, and the U.S. should continue working with its allies to seek alternative solutions," president and CEO Thomas Donohue said in a statement.
"The new tariffs are bad news for the retail sector," said Neil Saunders, managing director at GlobalData Retail, a consulting firm. He said companies will be forced to choose between raising prices on goods or absorbing the hit to their profit margins.
Saunders predicted that some retailers will try to shift their production out of China, but he warned that quickly changing supply chains can be costly and pose a new set of challenges.
On the call with reporters, senior administration officials declined to comment on when talks might restart with their Chinese counterparts.
"China needs to come to the table and address the concerns that have been raised," said a senior administration official.
They warned, however, if Beijing decides to execute its own round of tariffs on American goods, the president will unleash further measures.
"To the extent they remain unwilling to work with us, the president has other options and those will be considered at the future time," said a senior administration official.
Trump has floated the idea of slapping a third round of tariffs on $267 billion in goods on China.
 
while I slept,
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quote,

Trump also warned in a statement on Monday that if China takes retaliatory action against U.S. farmers or industries, “we will immediately pursue phase three, which is tariffs on approximately $267 billion of additional imports.”

unquote

hm
 
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