J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

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Equation

Lieutenant General
officially released F-X concept drawings

Boeing

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Lockheed Martin

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Make mine a Lockmart, no ugly tailess aircraft for the Air Force Brat, kinda like a Chick wit no equipments ya see?? Brat

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LOL...Sorry Brat, but I prefer mine "Chick" to be simple, but yet sophisticated and knows what she can handle herself very well and no tail baggage to weigh her down.:p
 

Inst

Captain
The canards ARE bad for stealth, however. It's a small reflective / absorptive surface in front of the main wings; which complicates emissions control compared to having a small reflective / absorptive surface behind the main wing. It is not an utter disaster and not something that cannot be partially negated, it probably contributes something around +5 dBsm, but if you were really focused on RCS reduction, you'd opt for a conventional wing-tail configuration.

What IS different here with the Boeing sixth-gen, however, is the avoidance of tailfins. By removing the tailfin, you remove the RCS contribution from the tailfin, which seems to add quite a lot to emissions compared to a tailfinless aircraft. It probably more than compensates for the RCS emissions created by the canard, and a tailfinless canard configuration is probably superior in RCS to a conventional wing-tail-tailfin setup.

I think that the J-20 also has the goal of being a tailfinless aircraft. The problem with the J-20, however, is that the TVC engines are not yet mature and reliable so tailfins are then completely necessary for stability. However, I would not be surprised to see a J-20C in the 2025 time-frame with TVC controls, no tailfin, and less RCS than the F-22.
 

jobjed

Captain
I dont care that much about WS-15. If it flounders, i wouldnt give a damn.

Time for you to leave sinodefence forum altogether then? Since you don't care or give any interest to Chinese military projects, why stay in a community dedicated to keeping up with said projects? Or perhaps you're just here to troll, which seems more and more likely by the minute.
 

Inst

Captain
The Chinese have experience with canards and are comfortable with the canard concept. If you read the Dr. Song paper, the thing about the selected airframe is that it allows the J-20 to retain reasonable maneuverability even if the engines ended up being underpowered. So it's more about an accommodation to China's technological ability than about pure stealth performance.

As far as not coming up with TVC, the TVC, as well as the WS-15 engines, are currently vaporware. We hear rumors about it, or hear about what a nice idea it would be to have TVC or a 150-180kn engine, but we don't have proof that they exist or are ready to be installed on production fighters.

Everything on the J-20 project is developmental, and given how much difficulty the Chinese have traditionally had with their aircraft programs, one should err on the side of caution and expect that the J-20 will go up in its current configuration.

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One could say that the J-20 project design is the exact opposite of the F-35 project; the F-35 project was highly ambitious, but had no failsafes if any of the milestones were missed. The J-20, on the other hand, can go up in the air right now, with a PESA radar, with 132kn WS-10s / AL-31FNs, and minimally-tested weapons bays, and still be a decent and capable fighter with none of the developmental technologies perfected. It, however, would be much better if it were to get AESA, if it were to get 150-180kn WS-15 engines, if it were to get reliable TVC, or even better yet, get TVC reliable enough that the tailfins could be omitted altogether. But it doesn't need any of these to be worthwhile.
 
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