JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

flyboy2008 said:

Baibur, not stirring anything. The remarks of these Pakistani pilots suggest some ignorance of Chinese pilot capabilities. It brings up the legitimate question of the degree of interaction between the two airforces. As allies, I'm surprised PAF pilots would make such a remark. Either the Pilot was joking, or it is an indication the two airforces have limited or no training together.

Personally, I believe the Chinese pilots are very well trained, among the best in Asia including South Asia.

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Am I missing the full transcript? We just have a couple lines given by the reporter.

No one is doubting Chinese pilots. I find it very interesting that some people have come up with an interesting interpretation, with the very limited information given. I bet if we asked the guy who made remarks, he would never say Chinese pilots are bad. Until these few lines were posted did we hear anything negative about Chinese pilots, nope.

Unless I am missing something, I think your interpretation is misfounded.

Generally, Allies are allowed to point out each others flaws, where does it say they cant? So stopped sounded so shocked:coffee:.

Baibar of Jalat said:

Am I missing the full transcript? We just have a couple lines given by the reporter.

No one is doubting Chinese pilots. I find it very interesting that some people have come up with an interesting interpretation, with the very limited information given. I bet if we asked the guy who made remarks, he would never say Chinese pilots are bad. Until these few lines were posted did we hear anything negative about Chinese pilots, nope.

Unless I am missing something, I think your interpretation is misfounded.

Generally, Allies are allowed to point out each others flaws, where does it say they cant? So stopped sounded so shocked:coffee:.

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You should stop being so defensive and thin-skinned. You are also mis-portraying the main thrust of my comment which was a legitimate question of the rate of training and interaction between the two airforces.

If you want to turn this into a he said she said soap opera, take your junk elsewhere. I'm not interested in that.

Easy fellas, the thread only just reopened. Would be a shame if it was locked again so soon.

Ok once and for all, I'm going to explain the meaning of the term the PAF pilot used and it's cultural context. Anybody stirring the pot even after that would IMHO be trolling just for trollings sake.
The term ''babay'' meaning old man or old men (depending on sentence construction) in urdu, when used in a humorous context means a person or persons not performing to their potential when the speaker knows they can do even better. Like calling a friend who is known for his cycling stamina ''tu baba ho gaya hay'' i.e' you've become an old man?' when he chooses to quit after a short sprint. It is taken as a positive and encouraging statement as it motivates the other person to do better.
So what the pilot actually meant was ''Are they flying like old men? Why are'nt they pulling their birds to the limit?'' It was a humorous comment and that is it.
Just because it got blown out of it's actual context due to a mistranslation by a poor guy at key mags forums who is not a native speaker of urdu, we had this whole ruckus by a few members who now need to cool it off pronto.

Gentlemen..I'm reading this thread..

bd popeye super moderator

Baibar of Jalat said:

Stop stirring:nono:

The PAF pilot did not intend to be insulting. His remarks could have been mis- interpreted. It could have intended remarks be taken as constructive criticism because PAF is buying J 10s, so therefore know the Chinese pilots could have put on a better display.

Or maybe it was a poor attempt at humour because some people are offended by remarks

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If you are Chinese and read that post, you'd quite a lot of the content to be very offensive. This is why I did not like it getting posted in the first place, because I know it'd cause this kind of nationalistic rant.

Let's just say I know PLA enough to doubt a large portion of what he wrote, but that's my opinion. Pakistani posters are welcomed and probably do accept a lot more of what he says.

The more this discussion continues the more it's going to degenerate to nationalistic rants again. So at this point, I would ask everyone to drop this topic and move back to normal JF-17 discussion.

Kinda interested to know if the PAF-CAC model of cooperation on JF-17 will be applicable for other potential customers. To localize the construction of a sophiscated fighter jet takes no small amount of effort from both parties. I'm not sure if CAC will commit to help other buyers setting up their own production lines, as it requires substantial human resources support, especially if there are quite a few buyers lining up for the product.

The production line in Pakistan will probably busy working on PAF's orders for the next decade, while CAC is tighted up with various projects to meet PLAAF's demand. So who's gonna build JF-17 jets for the export market?

EDIATH said:

Kinda interested to know if the PAF-CAC model of cooperation on JF-17 will be applicable for other potential customers. To localize the construction of a sophiscated fighter jet takes no small amount of effort from both parties. I'm not sure if CAC will commit to help other buyers setting up their own production lines, as it requires substantial human resources support, especially if there are quite a few buyers lining up for the product.

The production line in Pakistan will probably busy working on PAF's orders for the next decade, while CAC is tighted up with various projects to meet PLAAF's demand. So who's gonna build JF-17 jets for the export market?

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To me a simpel question. China has the labour, the production facilities and is shortest to have it produced on a central location. You just do not want the airbus hectic to transport parts all over Pakistan and China. Might be possible that certain western or non chinese parts to be added in Pakistan but as you said... They are busy to produce as fast as possible the PAF JF17's. Will get FC20. Are getting upgrading F16's. Are getting or operationalizing Erieye/ZDK03. And looking at the number of people working in that industry they are already doing amazing job. If you ask me... China is the place where it was made and where it will be produced for export. You might get some parts from Pakistan but financially that would be a little unwise.

I thought part of the deal was that Pakistan will make certain parts for all planes? It would make sense to focus production of parts in one place so you can enjoy economies of scale and save on duplication of capacity. With decent land links, transport costs should not be that high, so it might make economic sense.

plawolf said:

I thought part of the deal was that Pakistan will make certain parts for all planes? It would make sense to focus production of parts in one place so you can enjoy economies of scale and save on duplication of capacity. With decent land links, transport costs should not be that high, so it might make economic sense.

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I see that they are building new buildings for production facilities. The ex F7/F6/Mirage factories will have more space when they gradually lower active older planes. But besides building certain parts I see no reason to make a whole new production line in Pakistan if China can do it much cheaper, faster and better. As long as PLAAF does not buy many planes that is free for export... But if you get big customers then they even might think about making parts in China and some in Pakistan and let the assembling done in buyers country. Like K8... But I do not see any nation buying large quantities of more then 50 planes so local assembly looks a bit overdone to me.