Plan Yuan Class Aip & Kilo Submarine Thread

Discussion in 'Navy' started by Jeff Head, Oct 28, 2013.

  1. schenkus
    Offline

    schenkus Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    351
    A (perhaps stupid) question: could one use a sterling engine instead of a turbine and not need any steam at all ?
     
  2. taxiya
    Offline

    taxiya Major
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    3,494
    Likes Received:
    7,629
    In theory, you can. You can build the hot end of Stirling engine into part of the 2nd loop as the heat exchanger. I have heard such proposal.

    In practice, maybe nobody want it for reasons:
    1. Stirling engine use permanently gaseous working fluid. It is worse than liquid in transporting heat energy, meaning lower overall efficiency.
    2. Stirling engine is piston engine running at much lower RPM. Lower frequency of noise travels longer range than high frequency noise of the steam turbine.
    3. Stirling engine's pistons moves in a linear vector back and forth. It create strong vibrations, the bigger the piston is, the stronger, this is related to 2nd point, but not limited to noise.
    4. Stirling engine is big and bulky, lower power density compared to steam turbine.
    5. Practical Stirling engine has pumps in the loop. The working gas need to be cooled by ambient air or sea water in a sub. That circulation need pumps. It does not eliminate pumps more than this nuclear AIP who only has pump in the 3rd loop, the 1st and 2nd loop are natural circulated.
    6. Stirling engine has much lower efficiency than steam turbine. The nuclear AIP's reactor has already sacrificed efficiency for noise, size and safety reasons, using Stirling engine will make it useless.
    There is nothing bad with steam or turbine although they sounds old because they were broadly used for a long time. Stirling engine is nothing new, nor technically superior.
     
  3. schenkus
    Offline

    schenkus Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    351
    It seems sterling engines are used in the swedish AIP system - would this have the same problems or is there some basic difference I'm missing ?
     
  4. taxiya
    Offline

    taxiya Major
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Messages:
    3,494
    Likes Received:
    7,629
    No, there is nothing wrong or that you are missing with Stirling engine. Swedish, Chinese and Japan all are using it.

    Before this nuclear AIP setup, Stirling is the most accessible AIP tech China has through buying from Swedish. Germany was very good in Fuel-cell which is even quitter, they don't need Stirling. Japan's sub are really big and need long endurance, Stirling is better choice, besides (at least German) fuel-cell sub has to be cut open when servicing the fuel-cells.

    With the new nuclear plant, the equation has changed for PLAN at least, that's all.
     
    Hendrik_2000 and N00813 like this.
  5. by78
    Offline

    by78 Colonel

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    4,293
    Likes Received:
    24,018
    Another head-on view...

    (1915 x 2048)
    [​IMG]
     
    Appix, mys_721tx, jobjed and 5 others like this.
  6. Tam
    Offline

    Tam Senior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,679
    Likes Received:
    2,881
    That looks like a Kilo behind the Yuan and a Song on the right side.
     
  7. asif iqbal
    Offline

    asif iqbal Brigadier

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,537
    Likes Received:
    8,589
    I would really like to see the progress on the Pakistani SSK
     
  8. 2=GT
    Offline

    2=GT Junior Member
    Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    1,148
  9. by78
    Offline

    by78 Colonel

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    4,293
    Likes Received:
    24,018
    A series of high-resolution images...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    davidau, Equation, jobjed and 6 others like this.
  10. Hendrik_2000
    Offline

    Hendrik_2000 Brigadier

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    7,488
    Likes Received:
    25,789
    Type 039B, Northern Fleet, Laohuwei ...
    Artistic shot
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    N00813, Equation, Biscuits and 4 others like this.
Loading...

Share This Page